Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
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AK trolling now - that's a first.
Duffus favors the brave again 
Chicane looks better on the Bo plot as well, slow in gives you the advantage on the exit.
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Eddx14xe
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Registered: 12th Jan 10
Location: Hertfordshire
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
no.......
you could have a car weighing 2000kg and one weighing 600kg. Giving the heavy car 60bhp more would equate to 'nae much'
I'm not making any points about 270bhp, nor that it'll give you 4.5secs.
I'm simply saying look at the fucking difference the straight line speed made to the lap time! Why is that so hard to cunting grasp??!?!!?
Thought you were on about cars that were the same weight 
Your stating the power and saying about the difference it made but then saying your not making points about the power
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taylorboosh
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i didnt say ak was trolling... i said people were trolling because he is pointing the obvious out
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
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It's not obvious at all to me, every single point on the track, every braking point, every apex, every exit matters to that lap time and it's very interesting for me to look at a graph and see where time could be made or lost, particularly where the cars concerned differ like that.
My first thoughts were to go out and buy the same box of trick so I can log my own laps like that, not to have an argument on the internet about how pointless the thread is.
This place pisses me off some times, there are a high proportion of argumentative wankers who don't actually seem that interested in cars.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
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yes.... it is obvious. AGAIN.... i was simply showing how much or a REAL WORLD difference it made
Edd - dont start read the whole thread. There are no ground breaking tests/theories/outcomes.... its a simple comparison of 2 laps done in isolation.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
It's not obvious at all to me, every single point on the track, every braking point, every apex, every exit matters to that lap time
AK is dismissing all of that though, focusing on how fast the car gets down the straight bit, and concluding a car with more power does it quicker.
It's obviously extremely useful to have all that data otherwise though.
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Eddx14xe
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Location: Hertfordshire
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
very true danny but not really trying to suggest anything along those lines.
I'm making a few rough assumptions in that Fee and I both know the track well - so treat us as the same driver... both cars can make good use of their power.
I think dave does 63's in the fiesta but no idea on if he's quick(er) round corners or straights etc... thats why i've made this comparison. To simply show (roughly) that having a more powerfull (2 examples of 4wd cars used) car (driven just as well - very similar corner speeds) can simply mean 4.5secs off a lap time just like that.
I know there are many variables not taken into account.
[Edited on 29-09-2011 by AK]
I have read the thread and here you are talking about the power of the cars.
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Ian
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That's the most significant contributor to the difference in lap time.
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
That's the most significant contributor to the difference in lap time.
Between these 2 cars anyway.
Would a car with better handling but similar power to the Impreza be able to make back the time difference the extra power gives. Without wanting to insult, would a well spec'd NSX (replace with any car with good handling as standard) with similar power to the impreza but superior handling set up not be able to keep up or beat the GTR ?
[Edited on 30-09-2011 by Neo]
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AK
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Location: Aberdeen City
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i.e i chose those laps to compare as they were very close on corner speeds... which is quite rare for different cars on different tyres and different power levels.
its obvious that a more powerfull car will get up the straight quicker...... I have never seen a graph/data to show the differences though.....
yes, in a perfect world (or an F1 team ) the same driver, same car, same tyres would be used with varying power... but er..... it wasnt so stop picking over facts that are clearly outwith this comparison (note, it wasnt a test)
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AK
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
That's the most significant contributor to the difference in lap time.
Between these 2 cars anyway.
Would a car with better handling but similar power to the Impreza be able to make back the time difference the extra power gives. Without wanting to insult, would a well spec'd NSX (replace with any car with good handling as standard) with similar power to the impreza but superior handling set up not be able to keep up or beat the GTR ?
[Edited on 30-09-2011 by Neo]
I understand what you mean... but where does 'well spec'd' end? My Impreza isnt exactly running on standard suspension
a 350bhp NSX on similar tyres would find it VERY hard to catch a 600bhp R32 GTR on equivilent tyres (caveat - unless the NSX was driven by a pro and the GTR by John-d)
Be under no mistake - those laptimes above are not shy for the car specs (power) and tyres. They both could have been quicker over a lap but we're both human and mistake/errors creep in. Plus its real life so you're head must kick in at points and the walls hurt unlike on a PS3.
[Edited on 30-09-2011 by AK]
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Neo
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
I understand what you mean... but where does 'well spec'd' end? My Impreza isnt exactly running on standard suspension
Probably said this wrong.
Ignore the fact I said an NSX, i was just thinking of a car that is renowned for being very fast round corners.
As you have been saying this is the difference speed makes - could you potentially make a less powered car substantially faster at cornering, enough so to negate the 4.5second difference
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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yup - somethin like a wee caterham or atom... potentially slower on the straights but 'should' (if driven to its ability) be quicker in/round/out of the corners
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Neo
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Location: Essex
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
It's not obvious at all to me, every single point on the track, every braking point, every apex, every exit matters to that lap time and it's very interesting for me to look at a graph and see where time could be made or lost, particularly where the cars concerned differ like that.
My first thoughts were to go out and buy the same box of trick so I can log my own laps like that, not to have an argument on the internet about how pointless the thread is.
This place pisses me off some times, there are a high proportion of argumentative wankers who don't actually seem that interested in cars.
so lets get this straight, myself most likely being one of those argumentative wankers you are refering to..
i now have no interest in cars because i laugh when AK points out that a vastly more powerful skyline is faster up a straight than impreza? what logic exactly are you using when you mention braking points ect when he clearly said earlier in the thread to disregard corners ect and only look at the straights...
ALL he is pointing out is how much faster up a straight the skyline is and what that can gain you a lap
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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some more data lying about that takes in two more examples ..... more inline with what Neo was talking about.
R35 GTR - heavy bastard car 1700kg, 550bhp, amazing handling out of the box
R32 GTR - 600+bhp on the day, 1350kg
Impreza - 350bhp, 1200ish kg
R400 caterham - light, nimble, responsive
(now we are comparing car characteristics/weight/power etc)
You can really see the fat bastard cars (the two GTRs) getting left (their Delta-T traces steeply increasing) once the track comes to the twisty bits.
PS - the plots seem to get a bit out of line (distance on X Axis) as some as taking corners tighter/different lines = less distance over lap.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by john-d
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
It's not obvious at all to me, every single point on the track, every braking point, every apex, every exit matters to that lap time and it's very interesting for me to look at a graph and see where time could be made or lost, particularly where the cars concerned differ like that.
My first thoughts were to go out and buy the same box of trick so I can log my own laps like that, not to have an argument on the internet about how pointless the thread is.
This place pisses me off some times, there are a high proportion of argumentative wankers who don't actually seem that interested in cars.
so lets get this straight, myself most likely being one of those argumentative wankers you are refering to..
i now have no interest in cars because i laugh when AK points out that a vastly more powerful skyline is faster up a straight than impreza? what logic exactly are you using when you mention braking points ect when he clearly said earlier in the thread to disregard corners ect and only look at the straights...
ALL he is pointing out is how much faster up a straight the skyline is and what that can gain you a lap
there you go being an agrumentative wanker again 
John - it is obvious, but you keep feeling the need to argue about it. Go away.
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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what so because you have a differant opinion to me and 80% of people in here i should accept it..?
all i said was for a fair comparison the cars need to be equally specced with the same driver, only differance being power out put... then you would see decent results and be able to show exactly what an extra 200bhp per lap gives you in terms of a timed lap
you started name calling ect because the threads not going as you planned
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
some more data lying about that takes in two more examples ..... more inline with what Neo was talking about.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294098_2447818755522_1253529516_2909408_158348211_n.jpg[img]
R35 GTR - heavy bastard car 1700kg, 550bhp, amazing handling out of the box
R32 GTR - 600+bhp on the day, 1350kg
Impreza - 350bhp, 1200ish kg
R400 caterham - light, nimble, responsive
(now we are comparing car characteristics/weight/power etc)
You can really see the fat bastard cars (the two GTRs) getting left (their Delta-T traces steeply increasing) once the track comes to the twisty bits.
PS - the plots seem to get a bit out of line (distance on X Axis) as some as taking corners tighter/different lines = less distance over lap.
Quite interesting how well it appears the R400 came out of the hairpin looking at the Delta-T's on that !
Did it eek a lead at 640m ?
[Edited on 30-09-2011 by Neo]
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Eddx14xe
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No John, because were not talking about the power of the car
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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John - when are going to understand that this comparison was not setout as a test... I know that for it to be a 'scientific' test all things should be equal. It wasnt, they arent - deal with it. I didnt setout on that lap thinking 'oh, i'll go and drive this lap at nearly exactly the same corner speeds as Fee did 1 year ago so i can make comparisons'
I'm calling you names (boohoo) because you are an annoying, argumentative prick.
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AK
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Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo
Quite interesting how well it appears the R400 came out of the hairpin looking at the Delta-T's on that !
Did it eek a lead at 640m ?
yup, it looks to really gain some time back on that corner at 640ish (tightish banked right hander).. perhaps a bit lairy though as he looks to lift
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Neo
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Was going to say inconsistent on the throttle on the way out
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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actually - that might just be a gearchange (all his changes look a bit slow)
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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boohoo yet im not the one in a tantrum?
i know you didnt set out to do it scientificly and just stumbled across some old graphs as you said. my point stands to extract any real proof or data it you need to eliminate variables
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