JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
Is it any different to a footballer being told what to do by their manager? I don't think so.
Football is a poor analogy because unlike F1, its not repetitive and the thing you use to compete in your sport isnt a machine.
If you wanted to use it you'd have to say its like a footballer having an ear piece in and someone watching the game with a camera above the pitch telling them exactly when to pass and who to pass to, when and where to shoot but even that isnt perfect because you're using your skill to kick a ball to a precise area, something that isnt consistent 100% of the time, unlike a car.
A better analogy would be in long distance running. The best ones know when to push and when to hold back, they dont have someone monitoring their real time body stats and telling them in their ear they need to be running at precisely 24mph because they are currently using x amount of energy and if they push too early they'll be knackered.
These guys are meant to be the best in the world, driving in the pinnacle driving championship, they dont/shouldnt need their hands held. By all means, when they're back in the pits, give them advice, tell them what they should have done and let them learn so they can put it into practice in the next race, but real time just makes it too micromanaged to me. May as well just put robots in the car if you want to see cars go as fast as possible from point A to point B.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
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Nevertheless, it's still a team game.
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JonnyJ
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Doesnt mean an individual shouldnt be able to make the difference. Thats what we want to see from the world best drivers, presumably?
Surely its better if Lewis, using his skill and bravery, finds a way to drive a corner faster and its up to the others to work how how he did that, rather than him doing it, the team looking at his live data traces and just telling his rival exactly how he did it, while hes still in the groove on track. Granted theres a skill in repeating that but its not as much as figuring it out yourself, or examining the data when you're back and going out again and putting it into practice.
I just want to see the drivers pushed as hard a possible, anything that makes it harder for them is good in my mind as you'll see the real talent shining through.
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Ben G
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And you'll see Lewis walking the WDC, presumably. I don't want to go back to the Vettel years.
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JonnyJ
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Doubt it, I've heard plenty of times Lewis' engineer telling him where Nico is doing better than him
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Everything is about data now, a long distance runners watch can give him all that information, he doesn't need an ear piece. I can't think of a single thing that isn't all about gathering data and improving now. Whether good or bad, it's not just F1.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Everything is about data now, a long distance runners watch can give him all that information, he doesn't need an ear piece. I can't think of a single thing that isn't all about gathering data and improving now. Whether good or bad, it's not just F1.
Totally agree. The amount of data analysis in football is insane now, even at L2 level. Of course theres a skill in interpreting the data in the correct way. You can have all the data in the world but if you dont know how to read it right it'll be no use.
In F1's case though its not the driver doing the analysing, which is why in my long distance runner analogy i had someone else doing that for him.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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If they really are going to enforce this, they need to simplify the car/rules. Nico saying "Any driving advice guys?" gives the impression that he's got no idea what he's doing, but I don't think any serious F1 fan really thinks that is the case.
To the casual viewer on Monday morning by the watercooler I'm sure it's clear evidence that the drivers are all overpaid idiots that can't drive blah blah blah. We all know that FOM pick and choose transmissions so if they're concerned that the fans are getting the wrong impression (wording from BBC Article) then just chose the bloody transmissions a little more carefully. The cynical side of me says that this "rule" is nonsense and is just a crowd pleaser in which those radio comms will continue, just outside of our airwaves...
When talking specifically about braking points etc - its very rarely the driver wanting to know how to make an ultimate faster lap, it's more a question of "how can I be faster without endangering the fuel/tyres/engine/etc" - which is a very different message IMO.
Realistically, these cars are not about absolute pace - they're a massively complex challenge of management to allow for the current rule set to be enforced (tyres, fuel, engine/component limits/etc). If car-pit telemetry is banned for example, we need to either massively relax the regulations from a technical standpoint otherwise drivers will be cruising down the straights at 90mph just so they get chance to read the sheer quantity of data they'll need on their steering wheel LCD to make sure that he finishes the race.
We hear a lot of messages towards the end of the race from the likes of RBR (over the last four years) and Mercedes this year explaining to the drivers that some "unknown" issue is being managed and often in post-race analysis it comes to light that a certain car was actually nursing an issue all the way through the race. I think we'll get less occurrences like that and more retirements if they really do clamp down on these radio transmissions.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
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I'm still pissed off about this.
Just letting you know
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Ben G
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Are the drivers allowed to ask for advice if they get grit in their eyes?
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JonnyJ
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Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
Are the drivers allowed to ask for advice if they get grit in their eyes?
Yes.
quote:
The changes for Singapore do not include advice with regard to pit-stop strategies or safety, nor with regard to general messages between pit and driver.
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JonnyJ
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Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
When talking specifically about braking points etc - its very rarely the driver wanting to know how to make an ultimate faster lap, it's more a question of "how can I be faster without endangering the fuel/tyres/engine/etc" - which is a very different message IMO.
I think most people realise this, or should do. Usually these types of messages come when drivers are on the long runs in P2. Fuel/Tyres should be for the driver to manage IMO. As Ant Davidson pointed out in practice in Monza, if a driver is overheating his tyres, he should know this, instinctively and know the measures he needs to take to prevent it. Fuel management should also be under the drivers control, they should be able to be told what the fuel situation is but they shouldnt be told the exact places to save and how to do it.
One thing i would say though is it definitely should have come in next season, as it all seems a bit rushed and vague. Im never a fan of rule changes mid season as you lose the integrity of the competition, it doesnt happen in other sports. A set of rules should be determined at the start and then set in stone, thats the rules you play to for the whole season. I suppose F1 is more complex than most and certain rules might need tweaking if teams are taking advantage of them but something like this could've easily waited.
I also think that engine management should be down to the team. The drivers in control of tyre temps, brake bias/temps (drivers know if their tyres are too hot/cold as they'll slide/understeer, likewise if your brakes are too cold/too front or rear-ward, you'll lock them) and how much fuel he uses but if an issue arises on the engine/mechanical side, then they should be able to tell them about that and how to manage it as it is out of the drivers control.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
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On an unrelated to F1 note, anyone having a watch of Formula E today?
I have extremely low expectations but prepared to give it a go. Hope Sam Bird does well.
[Edited on 13-09-2014 by JonnyJ]
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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What an awful noise they make, sound like a load of those kids electric quads.
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JonnyJ
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Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
What an awful noise they make, sound like a load of those kids electric quads.
Im hoping its one of those things whereby after about half an hour, your brain blanks it out, bloody awful
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
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It wouldn't be as bad if they looked fast. Looks like they've jumped the gun on this, they're all changing cars ffs!
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
It wouldn't be as bad if they looked fast. Looks like they've jumped the gun on this, they're all changing cars ffs!
Aye, that was always part of the plan, does look a bit silly mind
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JonnyJ
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HOLY FUCK  What a crash
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Dave
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JonnyJ
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Cant believe he just walked away from that, genuinely winced. What the fuck was Prost thinking?!
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JonnyJ
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Location: Scotchland
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Well, quite exciting at the end, Heidfeld clearly saved all his boost for that last corner, not sure whether he had 'fan boost' as well.
Dont think I'd make a concerted effort to watch it again though, it was ok, but crash aside, pretty forgettable
[Edited on 13-09-2014 by JonnyJ]
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
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I appreciate they are hoping it will accelerate development of electric cars but it's a pretty average spectacle. Slow cars that can only last half the race is hardly a good advert for electric power.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Prost just came out and blamed Heidfeld for the crash 
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Holy Fuck just caught up on the FE
Racing was alright, but the track was just terrible. I understand why they've gone for city centre type tracks as it hides the slow pace of the cars somewhat and it's media relevant - but this track was really poor.
Crash was epic, Prost being a complete nonce
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
Holy Fuck just caught up on the FE
Racing was alright, but the track was just terrible. I understand why they've gone for city centre type tracks as it hides the slow pace of the cars somewhat and it's media relevant - but this track was really poor.
Crash was epic, Prost being a complete nonce
Absolutely awful track. Straight, chicane, straight, chicane, straight, 90 degree bend, straight, 90 degree bend, straight, chicane
Still in shock he blamed Nick, especially when Nick in his interview was very fair, I'd have been hitting the cunt He also walked straight off without going to see how Nick was. Considering how bad the crash was, and the fact they race together in sports cars, I'd have been over to at least check he was ok
Obviously learnt all he knew from his dad...
[Edited on 13-09-2014 by JonnyJ]
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