cunningham
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Registered: 25th May 05
Location: Lochore, Fife
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Changing the rules mid season is rubbish can seriously damage someone's title charge
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Technically it's not a rule change but a notification that an existing rule will be heavily enforced.
That's all I'll say to defend it though.
This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, it's a series in which an entire team competes and in order to do a Grand Prix distance in the quickest possible time - the data from the car/driver needs analysing and advice given back to the cockpit. There are many "driver focused" racing series (that no fucker watches) and if they wanted the driver to be more influential in F1 - we'd be running spec cars.
This is also hilariously irritating:
quote:
Q: Will race control first give a warning if a team goes too far, or will there be an instant sanction?
FIA: With a clear set of guidelines, we see no reason for there to be warnings.
quote:
Q: Is the message that a driver should come in for a pit-stop a breach of the regulations?
FIA: We think that it would be OK to allow teams to tell drivers when to stop for tyres.
quote:
Q: What about team orders (overtake, do not overtake)?
FIA: This should be OK.
Doesn't sound very fucking clear to me?
What sort of fucked up world allows team orders but not data analysis to allow for a quicker lap.
The headline stuff this has targeted is stuff like Nico asking for "driving advice" or Massa been told not to press the throttle and the brake at the same time. They've got no rule that can pick those bits out so they've gone instead for a full ban of radio transmissions involving the performance of the driver and car which is just stupid, especially when they claim the guidelines to be clear and then go to contradict themselves by allowing the pitwall to advice on tyre life/box strategies - which is pretty fucking related to the performance of the car.
I've NEVER got particularly irritated by a rule/regulation change or clarification before but this one really doesn't make any sense. They claim to be concerned about the public impression so why not just censor the messages they've got problems with?!?!
We've had years of entertainment from the team radio, the Smedley Massa relationship was particularly brilliant and more recent things such as "hammertime" followed by two purple sectors is just excellent for the show, all that will now be gone.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Oh, and it also applies to Practise sessions, which is even more stupid.
It just means the drivers will spend more time in the garage getting the info face to face and from telemetry print outs which means less cars on track, good one.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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I don't agree with the practice sessions bit. I hate how restricted their testing is. It's preventing technological breakthroughs IMO.
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Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Hoho guess what I've just booked.
I'll give you a clue:
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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 Lewis goes well there too, hopefully you'll see another victory.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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Love that track. First few corners are just wow!
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Notice both Nico and Lewis have come out in favour of the new radio rules.
Nico in particular has said it will be more "pure" racing and gave an example of when he was battling with Lewis and whenever he turned his "boost" up, Lewis' engineers just told him so he could match it and it would cancel out any advantage he could make from that.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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I'm not sure that'll be the case. Team orders are still allowed, so what's to stop them just masking engine mode management as team orders?
Bono: Lewis, we need you to slow down and let Nico past
=
Bono: Lewis, manage gap to Nico engine STRAT 5 (or whatever)
Same with tyres/pits:
Bono: Lewis, one flying lap then box box box
=
Bono: Lewis, Rosberg is pitting - Hammertime STRAT 6.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Surely he'd have to let Nico past otherwise they'd be inviting questions from the FIA and the media "Lewis you were told to let Nico through but didnt, why? Are you ignoring TO's again you cheeky swine?" (I know thats just an example)
Without a doubt there will be coded messages(even though these are now banned, would like to see the FIA prove one though), but thats been in F1 forever, seeing as teams dont want others to know what they're doing.
I do think it should've waited to the end of the season and i do think they've gone too far with the extent of stuff they've banned. I'd have worded it something like:
"No messages to a driver that would make them alter their driving style or information regarding areas of the car the driver is able to influence through their driving."
I wouldnt have banned:
Motivational messages
Any message regarding reliability that the driver wouldnt be able to realise otherwise (such as a gearbox issue)
Message to let them know they are running heavy/low on fuel
Clutch/map settings for the start
Basically, if a driver is in full control of it, he should control it, without outside influence. So tyres (temps/deg), fuel(saving/how to use it), brake bias settings, diff settings. If its something out of the drivers control, then the team can help.
[Edited on 17-09-2014 by JonnyJ]
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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This is my major gripe, they've got NO way of enforcing this or making a clear set of guidelines.
My TO example was a little extreme, but where do team orders start and "car performance messages" begin?
Coded messages have existed forever due to sporting secrecy between teams, NOT to satisfy a set of sporting rules. The one exception of course was "coded" team orders back when they were banned.
They lifted the ban on team orders because it was an unenforceable rule and because "F1 is a team sport, after all" - O RLY?! I thought it was just about a driver driving and everybody else is there to make tea.
Your examples are all fine of what you would not have banned - and this rule would have made much more sense. A Blanket ban of all car/driver performance info is just bullshit - it's just the "Brake X yards later" stuff that "fans" have got a problem with.
Writing a rule to ban that sort of stuff would have required some clever wording in the off-season, but not impossible.
Alternative just censor the damn FOM broadcasts and have done with it.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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Ban radios and just go totally to pit boards.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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I dont think censoring would work anymore, as now we all know what would be happening in the background 
They've just, one, jumped the gun and brought it in too early, and two, gone way over the top. I cant stress how much i HATE rule changes mid season. I can accept it on safety grounds but not stuff like this and FRIC. You wouldnt have a football season start then 20 games in the FA go "right, from NOW, the goals will be an inch higher and 3 inches wider". You just lose the integrity of the season.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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More data bans coming?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115916
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
More data bans coming?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115916
Finally F1 might be becoming a better sport again.
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Ban radios and just go totally to pit boards.
couldnt agree more, motogp seems to manage ok and that is far more involving
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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A compromise has possibly been reached to allow technical issues to be managed via radios. Good.
[Edited on 18-09-2014 by JonnyJ]
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Ban radios and just go totally to pit boards.
couldnt agree more, motogp seems to manage ok and that is far more involving
Exactly, far better racing IMHO.
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djgritt
Premium Member
Registered: 1st Nov 07
Location: Dorset Drives: Focus ST / Hyundai i20N
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Maldonado back in fine form...
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Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Ban radios and just go totally to pit boards.
couldnt agree more, motogp seems to manage ok and that is far more involving
Exactly, far better racing IMHO.
If they banned telemetry tomorrow the racing would far from improve, the drivers would be forced to drive way within themselves(and the car) for the sake of reliability and finishing the race.
The sport and cars will need simplifying to support such a ban on telemetry, the Moto GP being more involving thing is bollocks - perhaps they are in terms of steering, acceleration and braking inputs - but the F1 drivers are doing all that whilst operating quite complex computer and electronic systems - I'm sure Massa claimed up to 60 steering wheel (non steering/gear change) inputs PER LAP.
If they want to go backwards stick dirty great V8s in there from the early 00s - I'm sure they could manage "fine" without telemetry, I think the drivers do more tyre management/heat management than people give them credit for so I don't think that would be a concern.
By all means simplify the sport, the drivers may earn a bit more street cred but at what cost? There are a few "simple" racing series out there, some of which very popular amongst a certain demographic (NASCAR  ) but F1 has always been about technical advances and complexity.
Anyway, seems like key F1 stakeholders have seen some sense and are backtracking. Trust Bernie to be involved somewhere, him and Charlie are so out of sync now they're both ready for retirement.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
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Can't remember who it was but laughed at the driver who said "Can I ask that"
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
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They've sort of nailed what i wanted with these tweaks so fair play to them for that. The drivers all seems for it too, so win win.
As for a telemetry ban, not for the teams, the teams should get all the data to improve and monitor the car. I would however like to see the drivers to get less info. Come back in from a run, see their 3 sector times and thats it. They can then see a section they're losing time but its up to them to figure out how they can improve it.
Back to Singapore, got a bad feeling about this weekend. Nico goes well here (outqualified lewis last season) and Lewis looked all over the shop today.
Needs a win though, cant afford to go back to 29 points behind.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Backed Nico for pole. Hate myself a little bit, hope i lose all my money
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
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FPMSL On Perez's radio just then:
"Sector one...uh..oh...not allowed"
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
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Interesting FP3, the Merc's, Lewis especially, are nowhere. 3rd and 6th.
I know they've had issues in the past turning the SS tyres on but still...
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