Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
|
Not as good as people make out?
Wait until you watch the race tonight and see the gap lewis pulls out after the safety car.
Ok, so he had the super soft tyres on and is in the best car, but even so, on a street circuit where mistakes are punished massively, to achieve all but a pit stop over every other driver in that short time required precision balls out driving.
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
I didn't think the gap was that impressive. He'd just got fresh tyres, his car is the fastest anyway and vettel had been complaining about his tyres since at least 10 laps previous. He obviously had to not crash but that surely isn't a big ask of anyone in an F1 seat, certainly not a championship contender.
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
I beg your pardon
|
Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
I didn't think the gap was that impressive. He'd just got fresh tyres, his car is the fastest anyway and vettel had been complaining about his tyres since at least 10 laps previous. He obviously had to not crash but that surely isn't a big ask of anyone in an F1 seat, certainly not a championship contender.
They weren't new tyres....you must have been watching the wrong race mate.
Hard to crash an f1 car? Try telling Maldonado that.
|
Rick Draper
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Have Rick, Dan and Whitter lost their log in details again?
Im here still. Clearly Merc orchestrated Rosbergs retirement as payback for the tyre cutting.
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
Fresh tyres, they weren't 30 laps old or whatever the others had.
|
Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Fresh tyres, they weren't 30 laps old or whatever the others had.
We're talking about the gap Hamilton pulled on Vettel before his last stop.
Lewis was on 26lap old super softs when he finally pitted, then he did 8 laps on the soft tyre at the end.
Vettel finished the race with 35 laps on his softs, so if you take away the last 8 - it means that Vettels soft tyres were only a lap older than Hamitons super softs.
The raw speed of his gapping is only half of the spectacle, he was on the less durable tyres and was gapping him right up until he pitted - it was a fantastic stint, in the eyes of anybody particularly knowledgeable about F1 or observant during the race.
The final stint wasn't such a big deal as it was clear that Lewis was going to tear away from the pack but his strategy meant he needed to pass Vettel on track which although was quick and not particularly difficult, it is still a question mark that most teams would rather avoid.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
|
Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
|
Seems Vettel is a talentless bastard in the dominant Red Bull and Hamilton is a god for driving the dominant Mercedes?
Hamilton tinted glasses in full effect.
On a different note, have Williams not sacked their strategist yet?! Seriously. That car is without a doubt. Challenger for Mercedes, the only one out of the rest of the field. Red Bull are the most experienced and professional with the best strategists. But Williams is like a missile on the straights. If they could end a race in the game they would be a serious contender.
|
Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
Seems Vettel is a talentless bastard in the dominant Red Bull and Hamilton is a god for driving the dominant Mercedes?
Hamilton tinted glasses in full effect.
I don't think that the quality of Lewis' stint this year has taken anything away from Vettels' Singapore charge in 2013 (startling similarity to Lewis this year) and I don't think that anybody on this forum has suggested that it did - so not sure what your tinted glasses comment was about 
I even flicked back to the 2013 thread on CS, and nobody referred to Seb as being talentless - the main criticism came from Jonny who was criticizing the other teams for letting RB be so far ahead.
The "talentless" comments against Vettel have typically been that:
He can't race in traffic (I think he's proven otherwise)
He can't compete against a good team-mate (He's not doing particularly well on that front)
Sebs' legacy is in his own hands, I think he needs a WDC team-mate next year and I think he needs to smash em' - Perhaps Kimi? 
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
|
Rob_Quads
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
Seems Vettel is a talentless bastard in the dominant Red Bull and Hamilton is a god for driving the dominant Mercedes?
Hamilton tinted glasses in full effect.
The Seb in dominant car comes because up until this year it was all he had. He had never had to drive a car. This year he is having to drive his car to the limit and is really struggling.
Hamilton has showed year after year that now matter how crap the car is he will make the most of it. Very similar to Alonso in that way who has done very well with the current car which is fairly well acknowledged as not very good.
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
Also being outlclassed by his RBR team mate in an identical car
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Have to agree that i dont think anyone has ever called Vettel talentless, nor Hamilton a god. More Hamilton shit tinted glasses, hated whenever praise is applied to one of his performances, which whether you like it or not, was very good, again.
My views on Vettel are clear, hes good, very good, but not 4 world championships good. Everything fell into place for him at RB during those 4 years; a dominant car, a rule set that suited him and a team mate on the wain who couldnt get used to said rule set. 2 Championships he had to earn and 2 he just cruised to.
I also think that when someone like Fernando Alonso says something, its usually right and he makes no secret of his views on Seb, that hes good but not as good as he was rated come the end of that 4th Championship. I think it was something along the lines of
"When he will have a car like the others, if he wins, he will have a great recognition and be one of the legends in F1.
"When one day he has a car like the others and he is fourth, fifth, seventh, these four titles will be bad news for him"
And here we are today, car like the others, one capable of winning races as RIC has shown, and 0 wins. Not only that his pretty rookie team mate is doing a demolition job on him in qualifying and especially in races.
Whether the car/rules suit him is irrelevant, seeing as the top drivers such as Lewis, Nico and Alonso have all managed to get on just fine. Thats what good drivers do, they adapt, Webber couldnt do it for the Pirelli era and Vettel is struggling in this one, though hes starting to get a little grip on it.
So i dont think people think hes rubbish, hes clearly not. Hes just not as good as the stats suggest and hes still got a lot to prove.
|
nibnob21
Premium Member
Registered: 16th May 10
Location: South Derbyshire
User status: Offline
|
Everyone knows Alonso is the best. It's just a fact. I never used to like him when I was younger, but the more I watch him race in an inferior car I can't help but admire and respect how absolutely brilliant he is. Not just in extracting the most out of the car, but his respect for other drivers when he's racing. How many brilliant battles has he been in this year? And how many times have they come together? Says a lot about a driver I think. Many others would have crashed out multiple times in the close quarters racing he's been involved in.
Hamilton has the raw pace to match Alonso, but doesn't have as calm a head on his shoulders. He's getting a lot lot better in that respect though and in a couple more years will be far more consistent.
Seb is a great driver, no denying that. But he's not one of the 'greats', yet. The 4 WDCs flatter him. I was always impressed with how he could smash out an epic qualifying lap just at the right time and his ability to pull away from the pack during a race when Webber struggled. And although his car was dominant, it wasn't as dominant as the Mercs are just now. But he still has a lot to prove in my opinion and this year he's struggling to do that.
And Ricardo? Well he's just brilliant lol. So refreshing this year to see someone new in the mix. Definite future WDC if he continues showing the form he has this year.
MX5 Project Thread
|
Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
So Japan next, Hondas home GP... Wonder what McLaren will announce.
Thanks for all the fish Grandad 
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
|
whitter45
Member
Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by nibnob21
Everyone knows Alonso is the best. It's just a fact. I never used to like him when I was younger, but the more I watch him race in an inferior car I can't help but admire and respect how absolutely brilliant he is. Not just in extracting the most out of the car, but his respect for other drivers when he's racing. How many brilliant battles has he been in this year? And how many times have they come together? Says a lot about a driver I think. Many others would have crashed out multiple times in the close quarters racing he's been involved in.
Hamilton has the raw pace to match Alonso, but doesn't have as calm a head on his shoulders. He's getting a lot lot better in that respect though and in a couple more years will be far more consistent.
Seb is a great driver, no denying that. But he's not one of the 'greats', yet. The 4 WDCs flatter him. I was always impressed with how he could smash out an epic qualifying lap just at the right time and his ability to pull away from the pack during a race when Webber struggled. And although his car was dominant, it wasn't as dominant as the Mercs are just now. But he still has a lot to prove in my opinion and this year he's struggling to do that.
And Ricardo? Well he's just brilliant lol. So refreshing this year to see someone new in the mix. Definite future WDC if he
continues showing the form he has this year.
Couldn't have put it better - exactly my thoughts. Again I do not for minute think Hamilton is crap - far from it he is one of the best but not the BEST
Everyone will always have their own opinions based on who they like etc but for the record I do like Hamilton but not as much as some on here
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
I don't understand how you can support drivers from other countries.
As a Brit, you should be routing for Hamilton, or if you can't overcome your racism then Button or Chilton.
You don't support Spain in the WC do you.
It's as bad as the weirdos that support Roger Federer or Novak Djokovic.
|
Kyle T
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
Alonso I don't think is as complete as people say he is, his qualifying is rather average IMO.
That said, I don't think his racecraft is matched by anybody.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
I dream of an Alonso/Lewis combo again. It will never happen, but it would be brilliant to watch.
|
Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I don't understand how you can support drivers from other countries.
As a Brit, you should be routing for Hamilton, or if you can't overcome your racism then Button or Chilton.
You don't support Spain in the WC do you.
It's as bad as the weirdos that support Roger Federer or Novak Djokovic.
Hogwash. F1 is about Teams and personalities. I have no issue with people supporting Hamilton because he is British but I would rather they followed him because of his pace, racecraft and personality. The country his mother gave birth to him has little relevance.
Plus, Mercedes are a German company, with an Austrian Technical Director and the other driver is a German brought up in Monaco....
GO UK!
|
Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
I dream of an Alonso/Lewis combo again. It will never happen, but it would be brilliant to watch.
This would be great, because you know Rosberg would increase cheating tactics 100% and evoke Schumy-style banger racing again
[Edited on 24-09-2014 by Jambo]
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
Plus, Mercedes are a German company, with an Austrian Technical Director and the other driver is a German brought up in Monaco....
GO UK!
And built in Brackley
|
Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
|
Along with Red Bull, McLaren, Marrussia, Caterham, Williams....
[Edited on 24-09-2014 by Jambo]
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Aye, just saying, there is a anglo-german link, a lot of brits employed in making the current Merc so no reason not to get behind them, unlike say, Ferrari.
|
Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Aye, just saying, there is a anglo-german link, a lot of brits employed in making the current Merc so no reason not to get behind them, unlike say, Ferrari.
Aside from James Allison and Pat Fry 
But this just illustrates my point, Teams are multinational, as are the drivers never usually two drivers of same country of birth in the same team although has happened obviously.
[Edited on 24-09-2014 by Jambo]
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
2 people eh? GO UK
|
