blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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I apologise for the length of this post but I really need to hear other people’s views on this subject as it is something I am seriously thinking about proposing to the senior management at my work.
As you know I am a Police Officer and I am serious about increasing driver ability and reducing road deaths and injuries.
I am basing what I am proposing on how I used to feel when I was a young driver and what I know now that I am a Police officer.
Q1. How to you feel when you hear about schemes launched by the government to re habilitate criminals? The one that sticks in my mind was several years ago a bunch of TWOCers were given cash to set up and run a racing team, whilst honest, law abiding me could barley afforded to run my “get to work” car and racing was something I dreamt of at night
Q2 what is the general opinion amongst the masses in relation to the standard of Police Drivers. I am not talking about years ago as the training has changed in the last five or so a year which means that all Officers are trained to advanced level to be a response driver (lights and sirens). `How would young driver feels about being given the change to learn advanced driving skills by a trained police driver. I.e. advanced corning, observation overtaking etc.
Q3 what is the general view of the IAM (institute of advanced motorists). Is this still viewed as old folk with flat caps and driving gloves?
Q4. As a young car enthusiast what is more important, the way your car looks or driving fast?
Q5 Do you drivers feel that the majority are being let down by the minority. I.e. one or two bad “Boy Racers” are resulting in all young drivers being classed as hooligans. If so if there was a way for you to prove that you were a better driver would you do it?
Q6 (The proposal)
Depending on the answers given above I am proposing to create a driving club for the local area. It will be run by the police however Police involvement would be minimal as it would be a DRIVING club.
Entry would be based on a strict set of rules along the lines of
Drivers aged 17 – 21 (25?)
No penalty points on licence (may be increased to 3 if required)
Full membership granted after completion of advanced test
Discount on insurance for club members (still to be negotiated but should be good due to strict membership criteria)
Discounts from local car stores (same as above)
Organised track/club days/events
Holidays to “the Ring”etc
I would be hoping to get some really big discounts by using the fact that it was a Police run thing and due to the membership criteria only safe drivers need apply.
The ides behind it is to reward good behaviour and punish bad, (the way it should be) making the scheme a desirable thing to be involved in and possibly something to be proud of.
There would of course be a whole social scene accompanying this i.e. forum etc.
I know it’s a bit hypothetical at the moment but I can’t negotiate discounts etc on behalf of the Police until I get the nod from management but at the same time I could really use some feed back to see if people would go for it!!
Thanks for taking the time to read
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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imo it will be a benifit to teach people how to drive (like by police etc) but then you'll have people racing around the place more imo as they have been taught to drive like police etc... but then again it depends who you let in etc...
(only skim read it really)
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fazza
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Registered: 7th Feb 08
Location: Plymouth
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i would love to give it a go mate. im 21 in december so will have to be before then i guess. could help when doing track days also
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fazza
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Registered: 7th Feb 08
Location: Plymouth
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Q1. How to you feel when you hear about schemes launched by the government to re habilitate criminals? The one that sticks in my mind was several years ago a bunch of TWOCers were given cash to set up and run a racing team, whilst honest, law abiding me could barley afforded to run my “get to work” car and racing was something I dreamt of at night
really winds me up as we work hard to pay for evertything and they get it for free for being a criminal.
Q2 what is the general opinion amongst the masses in relation to the standard of Police Drivers. I am not talking about years ago as the training has changed in the last five or so a year which means that all Officers are trained to advanced level to be a response driver (lights and sirens). `How would young driver feels about being given the change to learn advanced driving skills by a trained police driver. I.e. advanced corning, observation overtaking etc.
the standard of police driving is very good, and i would love to be given the chance to drive like them. could help in instances on motorways etc or incase of accidents.
Q3 what is the general view of the IAM (institute of advanced motorists). Is this still viewed as old folk with flat caps and driving gloves?
yes is this not what they are like?
Q4. As a young car enthusiast what is more important, the way your car looks or driving fast?
the way my car looks is more important to me than speed. nobody can see your car if your going fast anyway.
Q5 Do you drivers feel that the majority are being let down by the minority. I.e. one or two bad “Boy Racers” are resulting in all young drivers being classed as hooligans. If so if there was a way for you to prove that you were a better driver would you do it?
yes there are too many young drivers, driving like idiots that give us a bad name.
Q6 (The proposal)
Depending on the answers given above I am proposing to create a driving club for the local area. It will be run by the police however Police involvement would be minimal as it would be a DRIVING club.
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt L
imo it will be a benifit to teach people how to drive (like by police etc) but then you'll have people racing around the place more imo as they have been taught to drive like police etc... but then again it depends who you let in etc...
I think this wont be a problem as a large part of the training is observation, hazard perception etc.
As a reult when I done my training I actually slowed down, especially about town as you appreciate how many hazards there are i.e school children, dogs, junctions, car doors etc..
As for the open road the same is true, you learn to read corners so slow down to the correect speed. you can also see concealed junctions and appreciate road markings etc so only overtake when safe.
Hands up, I love to open up the trottle on a good twisty bit road and have fun (who dosent) but due to the training I can do it safe.
The government has brainwashed people with the slogan "SPEED KILLS" as it dosent. If that was true all police officers wouldn't live past 30 years old as we spend half our shift going from csall to call above the speed limit.
The real slogan should be "INAPPROPRIATE SPEED FOR THE ROAD AND TRAFFIC CONDITIONS KILL", but I guess that just aint catchy 
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Whilst I would agree, I would think you'll have a hard time getting it done.
Whos going to pay for it? Obviously the police force isn't swimming in cash and there might be other priorities in your local area.
Who will cover the police officers doing driver training? Our local force is spread thin as it is AFAIK.
Thats not to say don't try - definately ask the questions, but be ready with the right answers too 
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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I never said it would be free to join 
There are also a many officers who would volenteer to do the work. Would also work closly with the IAM which is arealdy heavily discounted for younger drivers.
Cost other than that
Webspace - Police Servers??
Admin Cost of Printing cards - Police have the facilities too produce warrent cards etc.
Negotiate discounts - i am prepard to do this on my own time as I am so passionate about the subject
Plus if it was succesful maybe Lottery etc
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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You say there are many who would volunteer, but really, would they? In their own spare time?
If you get a few guys to put their names down that they would do it, that'd be a big boost for the idea.
Didn't realise IAM is discounted for young people - I've been wanting to do that for a while 
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by corsagsi16vplym
Q3 what is the general view of the IAM (institute of advanced motorists). Is this still viewed as old folk with flat caps and driving gloves?
yes is this not what they are like?
Not at all, there's an 18 year old on here who's a member of the IAM
Personally i agree with point 5 that thre are 1 or 2 people that ussually ruin it, however what i must point out is that driving home from work, i will get followed at 3 ft by a business man (or woman) in an audi/BMW/Merc and then overtaken in a 30.
First off i would like the general concensus to not be that younger drivers aren't as good, as we may not have as much experience but most aren't as cocky as older drivers with larger engined cars.
I like the whole idea of the scheme, however would it be an advanced driving course i.e. skid pan, driving control etc or just a meeting place/legal cruise ?
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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My thoughts are that it would be a full repackaged IAM course (Repackaged due to the common thought that IAM is for old folk). So full training plus test at the end which must be past to gain full memebership benefits
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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And benefits, as it'd be a paid coursa would be ?
Nationally recognised ? Insurance recognised ?
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fazza
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Registered: 7th Feb 08
Location: Plymouth
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whats rough cost to do the IAM course?
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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Same as full IAM..so insurance discounts and nationally recognised including IAM discounts on RAC,AA,NPC, etc...
Discount on insurance for club members (still to be negotiated but should be good due to strict membership criteria)
Discounts from local car stores (same as above)
Organised track/club days/events
Holidays to “the Ring”etc
Plus if thsi goes ahead discounts associated with this specific scheme.
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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It appears as if the first post is slightly missleading. I do not propose the scheme to be free.
There will be a joining fee. Roughly £100.
This includes full driver training, admin, advanced test.
It wont be easy to get in to the scheme, hence masive discounts for teh succesfull.
I am trying to teach people to value theie licence
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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Also track days etc will be subsidised/discounted but not free
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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whats rough cost to do the IAM course?
£99 for the training and test or £79 if under 25
details at www.iam.org
[Edited on 02-05-2008 by blebo]
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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I think i would commit 100% to a course like this IMHO.
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Fonz
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Registered: 12th May 06
Location: Newbury, Berks
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havent read all the thread but sounds similar to this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2008/05/03/mfwhit103.xml
just read it about COACHING drivers rather than INSTRUCTING them. don't tell them let them learn under controlled basis.
my instructor didnt show me the perils of understeer, or wrose correcting it with mid corner braking. i was instructed how to drive a car to pass the test. if (new) drivers were shown the limits at least (as a passneger) , or had chance to experience first hand then i think there would be more confidence on the roads and higher skill base - some may argue will encourage drivers to find the limit knowing where it is, but certainly needs to be a process which teaches skills rather than an ability to pass the test
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blebo
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Registered: 18th Apr 02
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Fonz - Fully agree.
People pass the test then pay the ultimate proce when they mis read a corner, enter it to fast (dosent need to be speeding) hit the clutch and brake and get caught by a tree.
Really is a case of grass roots training required, teach people to drive in the first plac
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Waste of time.
The government message is already sufficiently dumbed down and they're not going to appreciate going back on millions of pounds of investment to actually now get it right.
Plus you'll still get points for driving safely within your limits when some bullshit figure chasing exercise decides that you should.
Roads ARE safe but penalising the motorist is profitable and easy, and it looks great on paper. I can't see anyone senior going for this when popping a few bobbys on a street corner with the timing gear is enough to look like they're involved. If they actually cared about road safety they would remember the first of the three Es and drive well themselves.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
If they actually cared about road safety they would remember the first of the three Es and drive well themselves.
Amen!
Having received 3 points, a £60 point fine now and a £40 fee when I want a clean licence back (  ) for going through a red light (literally just changed but anyway) as I sat behind a Police car about to do the same a few nights back (having followed it for miles so it wasn't an emergency etc. and they hadn't put the lights on or anything) I decided to flash and beep them as the same rules apply to them. The PO waved in apology (I think?!) and sat at the lights correctly... he then turned the corner when the lights changed without indicatign and sped off at 50mph in a 40mph zone overtaking a cyclist (with nothing pasisng the other way) givign the cyclist all of about 10cm space!!!!!
Livid was not the word
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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PS Just signed up to do the IAM test as have been interested in doign this for some time
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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IAM test won't alter years of figure chasing.
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Gaz
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Registered: 24th Aug 03
Location: Widnes, Cheshire
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not going to anser the questions individually but say tht i personallythink police driving is not of the standard they think they are, They speed, cut motorist up and cheat traffic with the blue lights. All of this i have witnesed with my eyes and ot on TV.
IMO they are a bad as pulic drivers.
The scheme would look good in proposal but is this not a re-make of the already pointless "advanced driving scheme" offered to new drivers to "get cheaper insurance", which in actual fact is not as cheap as they make out to be?
I findits not just young drivers that drive like nobs, its the old guys too. They are just plain dumb and road-sense-less!
All in my opinion of course.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I think driver education is a great idea, I just don't know whether the UK penalty system is compatible with such improvements.
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