carnoisseurcraig
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Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
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quote:
Originally posted by stuyw
they'll probably check their books n think WTF  , surely sir, u must be mistaken, dont u mean its a 1.2
lol, i can imagine.
" hahah, i had a boy wanting to insure a supercharged corsa!!! God, supercharged corsa, those BOYRACERS just dont have a clue"
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carnoisseurcraig
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Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
User status: Offline
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This is from the GMC website
For Those Wanting To Build Their Own Supercharger Kit.
We can supply most of the necessary parts to make a kit for any engine or car, the one thing we cannot provide is the support bracket for the charger, as this is different for every car, even some times for the same engine fitted in different specifications of the same make and model. Let me explain. The charger needs to be supported at the front of the engine so it's drive pulley lines up with the alternator drive belt train, as it is the alternator belt that drives the charger. Some models of car have air conditioning, some don't, some have power steering pumps driven off the alternator belt, some don't, it is this complexity that means there are no support brackets unless some0ne has done it before and also kept a template of the bracket. To make one is an easy job, I say easy from a technical point of view but probably very time consuming. The bracket is made out of 10 mm flat steel plate and made with a hole for the nose of the charger to mount into and extended as long as necessary to go down the front of the engine to connect to any handy, studs, threaded holes etc, that ALL engines have. The charger can be mounted in any position that allows the belt drive train to connect up to it, in other words, mounted high or low or on any side of the engine. The only thing to be careful of is if this mounting position allows a reasonable routing for the inlet air pipe and the pressurized air out. Everyone asks us if we will make the bracket for them and the rest of the kit, the answer is basically, NO. The reason for this is we cannot give a price for something we have not seen or attempted before and we do not like open ended price jobs as it usually leads to arguments. The reason it is so difficult to price such things is that the space in the engine compartments are so limited on most cars and to make the bracket may even involve taking the engine out as you cannot see enough or get your hands in to make the bracket. As mentioned earlier, things like the air conditioning pump of power steering pump maybe in the way and these need re-siting and brackets made for same. One way to overcome the power steering problem is to throw away the standard mechanical belt drive pump for an electric one, like used on the Saxo's, this pump can be used on any car as you can site it where ever you want being a self contained unit.
OK, you have got your bracket made, the next thing is to affix an idler pulley to this bracket just below the charger pulley,so that the belt gets a good wrap on the pulley as without this the belt will slip, you will loose boost and the belt will not last 5 minutes. To fix this pulley, which we can supply, you just tap a 10 mm thread into the bracket, job done. If the run of belt to the charger from the last pulley it went around, is long, you may need an additional tensioning pulley fitted midway between the last pulley and the charger pulley. The reason I mention this is that usually you get a direct run of belt from the crank pulley to the charger, the length between being 12 to 15 inches, this is really too long. What happens in this situation is that when on boost the charger is taking power to drive it, and so the belt is tight, when you take you foot off, the charger takes no power, so momentarily the belt goes very slightly slacker, when you put your foot down again the belt slips until the tension has built up again, operating like this wears the belt out prematurely and results in no drive, no boost. To combat this we use another pulley mounted on the bracket again, somewhere about mid belt run. It should be noted this pulley is not used to tension the belt, the normal alternator adjuster is used for set up tension, this tensioner is just to keep the tension steady. NOTE; The charger works on the modern multi rib poly V type belt, for those with older cars using the thick single V belt, you need to go to the scrap yard, find a modern car, rob the alternator pulley, as these are practically universal, and take the crank pulley off. This is unlikely to fit your car but to make it work get and engineering firm to cut the outside flange off, with the ribs on, do the same with your old pulley and then weld the new rib pattern on your old crank pulley.
Once you have completed this, the hard work to doing your supercharger kit is already done. all you have to do is put a piece of string around the pulleys and measure it and get a suitable length of belt, we can help here if you have problems. One note of caution here, there is not in infinite number of belt sizes so it is just as well to try and ascertain the length you are going to need before fixing your final position for both the idler and tensioner pulleys so that the belt length will be in range of available product. The moving of the pulley fixing by 5 mm can affect belt length by up 10 mm, so you can see by careful positioning you should have no trouble getting a required length that is available.
Now all you have to do is connect an inlet hose to the charger intake, with an air filter unit. We can provide special flexible hosing for this purpose plus we have a range of K&N filters, which you would locate in any convenient position in a cool a place under the bonnet, preferably encased and piped so it can only draw cold air from the front of the car. Likewise with the pressure side, plumb it up to the throttle body using Samco or similar pressure resistant hose, anything else will just burst. If you have long runs of hose to and from the charger it is better to make a metal pipe to take either the inlet or pressurised air, as this special hose is expensive and does not have the self rigidity over long distances. The easiest way to do this is to get new exhaust pipe of the right diameter and "cut and shut" weld it together, I know this is not pretty but it is sufficient whilst you test your system, you can get custom made bent pipes and chrome them when you have finished all your conversion.
The next thing is to provide a system for inserting an extra 1 or 2 injectors, to provide the extra fuelling necessary, you do not touch your standard system for 2 reasons.
1) With our system you do not want to alter the original ECU settings for fuelling, as by leaving this alone the car just runs like it did before when off boost.
2) The complications of trying to re map the whole system (needing expensive stand alone ECU) using the original injectors to give more fuel under boost whilst keeping the off boost running the same as before are mind blowing.
What we suggest is putting in a metal section just before the throttle body that has a holder for the injector/s, we can supply both injector holders and injectors and the necessary fitting kits. After doing this all you have to do is adjust the MF2 unit, described under management.
On a car that has not been done before we recommend fitting a restrictor in the nose of the intake of the charger to reduce boost pressure whilst you set things up and if everything is Ok, gradually open it up until you get optimum settings. This is especially important when fitting over size chargers. I know you want as much BHP as possible but going the whole hog from the start is fraught with problems. If you have not got the kit set right as far as boost and fuelling, you will undoubtedly blow the engine apart, so caution is the word, remember you only need about 6 lbs of boost to get a 40% increase in power. Another factor why caution is advised, even assuming your engine is strong enough to cope with a 100% power increase, your clutch and gearbox, may not be, so go slowly with the BHP. If you go for the limit first time out and the engine, clutch or gearbox blows up, you will not know what has caused it. Even if we assume it is just too much BHP, it would be nice to go up a bit at a time to know the limitation before problems happen, then when you get to the breakage point, when you rebuild you can knock the power down to allow for this.
These superchargers are not positive displacement and work on the principle of a turbine, the same way that turbochargers operate. In order for this principle to work the turbine has to spin at very high revolutions, in turbochargers the hot exhaust gases spin the turbine up to speeds of between 90000 to 130000 RPM. To get these high speeds in the Rotrex supercharger the input drive shaft operates through a gearbox to speed up the turbine, the result being high-pressure air out of a compact unit the size of an alternator. The ROTREX charger being of this type overcomes the drawbacks of previous superchargers, these problems being the main reason car manufacturers started to develop turbo chargers some 20 years ago and only now are manufacturers coming back to look at superchargers.
The benefits of the ROTREX charger over other superchargers are firstly being centrifugal they take little power to drive and so save BHP that would otherwise be lost in driving the unit. By not taking much power they can be driven by the alternator belt and not needing special drive trains, as per the VW G-Lader, plus their size is smaller, about the size of an alternator and so aids fitment as most car engine compartments are so full of stuff, room is a big problem. The size of the unit has become more important now that nearly all cars have air conditioning, let me explain. Practically all chargers need to get the drive from the crankshaft at the front of the engine and need to be located in a space along side the cylinder block. With the older engines all you had was the alternator to contend with for space, but then came along power steering which needed a belt driven pump from the crankshaft and then came along air conditioning, this means on many cars there is no space for the charger. Obviously the type of person wanting to supercharge their car understands this is not a normal conversion and is usually willing to accept things need to be altered. The solution for this lack of space is usually solved by one of the following options.
1) take off the mechanically driven power steering pump and fit an electrical one (like on the Saxo/106, this unit can be used on all cars to get around this problem).
2) Take off the air conditioning pump.
3) Move the power steering pump/air conditioning unit, or both by altering the bracket arrangements. These may sound like big tasks but to get 50 to 100% more bhp some sacrifices have to be made. These problems are not only applicable to the ROTREX, in fact on all the other chargers, being bigger, the problems are even worse.
Another benefit to using the ROTREX, as opposed to any displacement charger is the fact all displacement chargers produce maximum boost at about 3000 engine rpm and then tail off as you rev higher. This is a big problem when driving, as you do not want near max power at low rpm as you get tremendous traction problems, which is a particular problem if you compete in drag races and standing quarter miles, as all you do is spin the wheels and go no where. The ROTREX, being a centrifugal type charger has a nice even increase in boost pressure rising in a linear pattern, with useable extra power from 1000 engine rpm and max boost at 7000 rpm ( or at what ever you desire, depending on the engine).
The latest revision of ROTEX unit is integrated with it's own oil pump and supply as opposed to the older models which had to be connected to the engine for an oil feed. The main advantage of this is that special traction oil can be used which gives a very high standard of lubrication but does not include any friction reduction additives that are contained in modern engine oil, especially synthetic. In this configuration we are able to produce a lot more boost(up to 1.25bar), an increase of 0.4 bar more than the older units! Together with the new style supercharger we have developed a completely new design bracket to hold the unit in place including an integrated belt pretensioner to minimize belt jumping and slippage that can occur when coming on or off the accelerator very quickly.
Just because these units can generate up to 1.25 bar of boost does not mean that we recommend running them at this level without making sure that your engine has sufficient modifications to cope with the pressure. We can tailor the setup to each customers requirements and if desired boost can be limited by the use of a restrictor. Our Saxo kits run between .5 and .8 bar of boost, so you can see high boost is not necessary to get big power. When thinking about the boost pressure you would like, forget figures you have seen about Turbo cars, with a supercharger the quality of the air is so much better, for quality read less hot, for less hot read more power. I know many of you reading this will have heard stories of Renault 5's using 2.5 bar of boost 26 lbs per square inch, firstly I doubt this figure as I do not believe the engine will stand this pressure without major modification. Secondly it is a matter of physics, when you compress a gas it makes it hot and the heat rises at the square of the pressure increase, so doubling the pressure raises the temperature 4 times and as you loose 3% power for every 10C you raise the air temp, you can see that the gains of increasing the boost pressure get smaller the higher you go. What you want is the best power with the lowest boost pressure as the bigger the pressure the more strains on all the engine components, plus if you boost too high, even with the best intercooler in the world, the inlet temps still get very high, which brings along the possible problems of detonation.
LISTED BELOW ARE THE MAKES AND MODELS WE MAKE AND CAN PROVIDE FULL KITS FOR.
CITROEN SAXO 8v & 16v, PEUGEOT 106 8v & 16v
We do complete ready to bolt on kits for the above vehicles, complete with all extra management to provide extra fuelling. Originally the kits we did were designed as ones we would fit in house but we soon realised that many people could not bring the vehicle here due to many reasons and therefore we changed the kit, specifically the management so it could be done by anyone with the minimum of equipment, which is very important especially for those who live in countries without the technology here in the UK. By this I am referring to the fact most management systems need a rolling road, gas analyser and specialist programming equipment. The fuelling adjuster unit we use, the MF2, does not need any programming equipment and is screw driver adjustable (see under management). The reason this unit works so well is the fact that as the boost pressure rises uniformly so to the extra fuelling needed does. EG, no sharp rise in pressure or tailing off as with turbo's or displacement superchargers. If the kits are going to be fitted by others the equipment needed to set the Management is,
1) If one is available a rolling road as it makes it so much quicker.
2) Gas analyser.
3) Screw driver.
If there is no rolling road available the car can still be set up OK by doing the following. With having no rolling road the car has to be set up by driving on the road and due to this, it is unlikely that any workshop gas analyser you may have can be used. To get around this problem you need an AFR meter, or air fuel ratio meter (see under management), with this you can see how rich or weak the mixture is and just accordingly with the MF2.
The kits we produce for the Saxo/106 are either non intercooled or intercooled, I would always suggest going for intercooled, (no matter what vehicle you are supercharging), the reason being the extra cost for intercooling is about 25% more but you get double the bhp benefit.
These kits are for cars that are not air conditioned cars, as the air conditioning pump will not allow fitment of the charger in the position using the standard support brackets. When we went to Taiwan to run the Citroen works touring car team, we were asked to fit a kit to a road saxo with air conditioning, it involved totally reworking the brackets, and repositioning the alternator and several other parts, it can be done but should not be attempted unless you are a highly skilled motor engineer. We have no drawings or factual information how to do this. If anyone manages to make a professionally engineered kit to fit a Saxo/106 with air conditioning, we will buy the specialised parts from them, as we have many people wanting such a kit.
The kits we now supply give the following horse power, the variances in power is due to age, exhaust manifold, exhaust system etc. A standard 1.6 8 valve gives between 75 to 80 bhp at the wheels on our rolling road and the 16 valve 92 to 100 bhp at the wheels.
SAXO / 106 8 valve no cooler gives 110 to 118 bhp at the wheels which equals a 50% increase.
SAXO / 106 8 valve with intercooler 140 to 155 bhp at the wheels which equals 90% increase.
SAXO / 106 16 valve no cooler gives 140 to 150 bhp at the wheels which equals 50% increase
SAXO / 106 16 valve with intercooler gives 175 to 185 bhp at the wheels which equals 90% increase
The above kits are fitted without any modifications to the standard engine. For those wanting higher power we can supply extra parts, such as a bigger charger, extra injectors, head work, cams, low compression ratio pistons etc. Please note if you have a plan to go to higher power when you buy the original kit, please say so at the time so we can supply a larger charger unit, as the standard unit supplied will not be large enough and the extra cost at this time is very small. No one has gone to the limit yet, the best done so far had a larger charger, low comp pistons and produced 207 bhp at the wheels. Realistically there is no limit apart from money.
Other CITROEN and PEUGEOT applications are available, please contact us for information.
For those wanting to build their own supercharger kit for a model not listed, it is quite easy technically as we can supply most parts necessary.
[Edited on 24-01-2004 by carnoisseurcraig]
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essexracer
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Blacksxiboy2003
???
was private joke 
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J4LDO
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 03
Location: glasgow ish
User status: Offline
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my mates is the pic of the rr graph, that graph was on the first charger he had a problem with it and i got replaced, just over 150@wheels 201 @ fly, its a 16v btw
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by carnoisseurcraig
This is from the GMC website
For Those Wanting To Build Their Own Supercharger Kit......
Sounds easy eh? well your sorted if you have a saxo or pug 106, otherwise it sounds like its gonna be a git to fit  Although, if you build a perfect bracket craig, you might beable to sell them the template  and make some money on it mate 
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DP.
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
User status: Offline
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im pretty sure its possible with enough £££ and patience!
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bradfincham
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Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
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that astra sounds wicked, craig do it!!
be the first
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DP.
Member
Registered: 21st Dec 03
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
User status: Offline
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hmmm..... i wonder if its possible to fit a supercharger under my corsa bonnet with the valver in there
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carnoisseurcraig
Member
Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
User status: Offline
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well, i looked into that as well. you'd have to cut away part the front slam panel to make it fit. seems like a good idea.
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DP.
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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hmmmmmm.... how much needs to be cut away? and what about the bonnet?
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antscorsa
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: london
User status: Offline
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i read through a old total vaux mag adn lexmaul did a supercahrger for the 1.6 16v think it was 3 grand
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Simon L
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Registered: 24th Mar 02
Location: Glasgow
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A VTR will give 170ish @ the wheels (220+ fly)
A VTS will give 200ish @ the wheels (250+ fly)
Supercharged, along with lowcomp pistones, intercooler, 5+6th injector, manifold, exhaust, dastek, etc...
When i was down at GMC i saw a black corsa with a rotrex supercharger fitted. Wasnt finished though, looked like the work had just been started. But that was just over a year ago now.
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carnoisseurcraig
Member
Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
User status: Offline
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its up in aberdeen. the boy wont let me look at it cos his seeming was the first.
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Gavin
Premium Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: West Midlands
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niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
pew pew pew pewwwww
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crazybrightman
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Registered: 30th Mar 09
Location: leicestershire
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ok first of all 170bhp at the wheels is only about 195bhp at the fly you dont get 50bhp loses on a fwd car!
anyhow the physical fitting of the charger wouldn't be too bad its getting it running would be the hard part.
some sort of air filter and pipework into the charger, then piepwork to an intercooler or charge cooler then piped back to the throttle body, job done. now you need to run it, you need some sort of boost pressure control and way of managing fuelling/ignition.
im guessing standard managemet wont see boost pressure so it will just run lean melt and piston and not back the igition timing off. so you need a new map sensor, maybe bigger injectors, fuel pump etc. then you either need a piggy back ecu that can run with boost or a stand alone ecu. cost start to go up but not massively. if its is safe to run 0.6bar on standard internals you may well see about 150bhp at the wheels which isn't bad at all for low boost.
dont forget tunning a charger is like an n/a so for the best out of it you will still need cam and exhaust upgrades.
i recon £2000 is a reasonable budget though as there are superchargers you can have for as little as £150 out there.
i have one off a 1.6 engine that runs about 140bhp at the wheels with 0.6bar plus it has an electromagnetic clutch like an a/c pump so cuts out on low throttle to give better fuel consuption driveability etc.
my only gripe is i hate the whine of a charger and thats why ive removed the one i have in favour of a more efficient turbo.
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Jakey
Premium Member
Registered: 4th Jun 07
Location: Sandbach
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5 year old thread ftl.
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crazybrightman
Member
Registered: 30th Mar 09
Location: leicestershire
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how the fec? i didnt even search for it! it was just in this section as per normal???
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