Tom_Coe
Member
Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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Right, I've been working out for about 5-6 months now, I'm feeling a lot better and am noticing te changes bu one thing bothers me and its the fact compared to other friends I'm really not gaining as fast as them. My body type is poor to start with (about 5/6% bodyfat) I'm quiet strong and can lift above my mates but they all seem to get better gains than me, I'm currently loading on creatine and also drinking protien shakes. My diet is good possibly not the best but I don't want the gym to take over my life so I eat what the rest of my family do. I'm just wondering if there is any more I can do to see better gains, currently traning 4-5 times a week and my plan is 2 weeks of heavy lifting and 1 week lighter with more reps.
Any advice would be much appreciated. 
Thanks
Tom
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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I think your training too often per week, not letting your muscle fibres repair before your at the gym again.
As for your diet? You probably would need to be a tad more pedantic about what you tell CS, then the members will be able to anylise in better detail.
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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Don't do hundreds of sit ups a day or whatever it was you said in the other thread. That won't get you anywhere.
What's your aims? and what do you mean by bigger gains? as you said you can lift more than them? Do you do any lower body exercises that is often overlooked but are believed to promote growth.
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Tom_Coe
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Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
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The diet isn't a stable one, lots of meat and chicken as were a big meat eating family. 3 meals a day. Starting a lunch of chicken and pasta, also starting to eat oats of a morning.
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Tom_Coe
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Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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Well I want more muscle growth I'm just feeling a bit like nothing is helping me at the moment, I do some lower body, sit ups is only to promote abs as thats a goal of mine to get some really good abs, I do...
Monday : Chest + Triceps
Wednesay : Biceps + Back
Friday : Abs + Shoulders
Sunday : Legs
I'm just aiming to get bigger really in general.
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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Are you getting stronger? How many reps are you doing on each exercise? are you at the point where you are struggling at each set (but still keeping the correct form)?
Also do you mix it up a bit? Try and use free weights if you are using machines, or use your own bodyweight stuff like pull ups (chin ups pull ups, wide grip) and dips.
For legs what kind of stuff you doing? squats with a barbell and weighted lunges are a couple to try.
Always remember to keep good form though, often you won't be able to lift/move as much, but you will benefit more, same with the speed of the reps.
Also remember everyone is different, people grow different etc, and also when asking for help there will be people with differing opinions and they will usually always thing their way is right but the nature of this type of thing is that things change a lot, one minute one thing will be frowned upon, next its the "must do". My advice would be to try things and see what suits you, get the balance right for your self. Keep achievable short term goals to help motivation going.
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A1EX
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Registered: 29th Mar 00
Location: Turku, Finland
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I dont think you should be training your chest and triceps on the same day, same goes for biceps and back, as when you do chest work you use your triceps aswell, same goes for some back work you also use your biceps, try switching them around
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Tom_Coe
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Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
Are you getting stronger? How many reps are you doing on each exercise? are you at the point where you are struggling at each set (but still keeping the correct form)?
Also do you mix it up a bit? Try and use free weights if you are using machines, or use your own bodyweight stuff like pull ups (chin ups pull ups, wide grip) and dips.
For legs what kind of stuff you doing? squats with a barbell and weighted lunges are a couple to try.
Always remember to keep good form though, often you won't be able to lift/move as much, but you will benefit more, same with the speed of the reps.
Also remember everyone is different, people grow different etc, and also when asking for help there will be people with differing opinions and they will usually always thing their way is right but the nature of this type of thing is that things change a lot, one minute one thing will be frowned upon, next its the "must do". My advice would be to try things and see what suits you, get the balance right for your self. Keep achievable short term goals to help motivation going.
Yeah getting stronger im doing 10-12 reps on every set, I train a lot on free weights and using my own bodyweight so dips and pull ups also weighted dips and pull ups due to my lack of weight I have to strap 10kg to me to dd some weight as I find pull ups and dips quiet easy. Also use the cables a lot and I find that I feel them a lot more. Currently on DB chest press I'm managing 30kg dumbells which is about 6-8kg more than the person I train with. Whats your view on taining Triceps and Chest on the same day?seeing as some chest exercises train triceps it makes sense to me to train the together rather than train them on seperate days when I would be aching if that makes sense?I'm doing squats ging to try lunges too as a few friends have recomended them highly.
Cheers for the advice carl I'm feeling more motivated already spent today just thinking about my whole workout and I'm going to cut down on hw many times I go a week and im going to train mornings now as the gyms emptier then.
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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You want to be doing more like 6 reps, when you can do more than 8 reps you want to be going up in weight.
It's a couple of years since I did any physiology stuff so its only vague and even then people go by different things. Best thing would be to have a browse on some body buildiing forums, look out for people you think make sense and incorporate some stuff into your routine. Try that out and see how it goes.
Just remember the basics of what you are doing. Ie a movement that puts strain on your muscles, tearing the fibres, which then repair stronger ready for it happening again. If you break it down that simple then look at the aspects you influence. To begin with the exercise it's self, consider every movement has an agonist and antagonist muscle as muscles only contract, ie when your bicep contracts your tricep relaxes and vice aversa. So you need to train both to keep a balance. Then there is the recovery of the muscles where rest and nutrition come in to play. Nutrition has a massive impact, mine is/was shocking and my gains were very slow because of this when I used to go to the gym.
If you train your triceps and chest etc on the same day you aren't going to get the best out of each, ie the weaker/smaller muscles will reach failure first which will stop you lifting as much/reaching failure on the other muscles. Think back to what i've just mentioned with the recovery of the muscles, if they aren't being exerted past a point they won't repair.
[Edited on 06-06-2009 by Carl]
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jim_r1
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Registered: 6th Jun 07
Location: Nantwich, Cheshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by A1EX
I dont think you should be training your chest and triceps on the same day, same goes for biceps and back, as when you do chest work you use your triceps aswell, same goes for some back work you also use your biceps, try switching them around
Training like that is fine, as long as you're doing chest first. Also be careful to what tricep exercises you're doing as if they need the chest to help work it then it will not be beneficial. Same with back and biceps etc.
Train all parts of the body as it promotes growth hormone release.
Ideally you're looking for a maximum of 6 reps per set as already stated.
Mix your training up; look at some more advance training techniques to overcome a plateau.
Also look at you're rest between sets, try and get a 10:1 ratio.
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Tom_Coe
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Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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cheers everyone this has helped a lot will keep this updated ad let you all know how its going
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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Putting on size is all about the food you eat and how often you eat it. You cannot out train a poor diet so if your not growing, chances are your not eating enough and its nothing to do with your training. People underestimate how anabolic food is, which is a shame as its the most powerful tool in any mass building program.
Your diet is POOR read that again POOR. 3 meals a day? what are you a pet dog? You need 5-6 a day, with protein at every meal and by protein i dont mean a crappy shake as your main intake.
You want a minimum of 150g of protein a day to build muscle, but double that again if you want to build muscle without gaining fat. Stop loading up on useless carb food such as pasta and oats and get some proper muscle building food inside you.
Breakfast should consist of a 4 egg omlette with 2 yolks, inside that omlette should be some low fat cheese and lean slices of ham.
If you take a packed lunch to work, you want at least 5 cooked chicken breasts to take with you, with a tub of salad infused with cheese too then eat it once every 3 hours with suitable amounts of chicken (tuna can also be used) take some low fat yoghurts with you too, and mixed nuts to snack on.
As soon as you finish training, you want one of those protein shakes with a 50g serving, along with about 150g of carbs, so call that a banana, apple, cup of grapes and some fruit juice.
evening meal should consist of boiled veg with a lean meat of some description (beef, chicken, lamb etc)
then before bed, get yourself another protein shake and mix it with 200g of cottage cheese and some ice in a blender. a tablespoon of peanut butter too.
If you dont eat big and continue to eat like a family pet then you will never grow, just dont fill up on junk food and carbs otherwise you will loose your abs and just be another fat guy trying to be a bodybuilder.
As for training, use an antagonistic split such as this if size is your only concern. periodise it in 4 week sections. so high rep hypertrophy (20-14 reps) functional hypertrophy (14-8 reps) then heavy lifting (10-4 reps) and cycle it like that for maximum growth.
hers the exercise plan:
All exercises performed in list order as they are structured that way for a reason.
All exercises performed in 4 sets, increasing weight each set.
Set1 - 12 reps
Set2 - 10 reps
Set3 - 8 reps
Set4 - 6 reps
Monday - back, hamstrings.
wide grip pulldown
bent over barbell row
seated cable row
reverse grip pulldown
back extension
leg curls x6
tuesday - biceps, triceps, calves.
alternated dumbell curls
barbell curls
hammer curls
single hand tricep extensions
bar pushdowns
overhead pulls
rope pushdowns
50 calf raises x2
thursday - hamstrings, and quads.
leg curls
stiff leg deadlifts
leg press, high and wide stance
lunges
leg ext
leg press, low inverted stance
free squats
Friday - chest and shoulders.
front raises
Side raises
shoulder press
chest flyes,
incline dumbell press
flat barbell press
saturday - triceps, biceps, calves, hamstrings (or other muscles you think need extra groth stimulation)
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Tom_Coe
Member
Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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Update for those that helped me out, following advice lifting heavier, even seeing increases in weights I can lift now following the 4 sets rule with increasing weight and decreasing reps, starting to notice more of a change just going to keep it up and hope it continues to work.
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Dave86
Member
Registered: 3rd Jul 05
Location: Greenock
User status: Offline
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dbol, test, bish bash bosh, no complaints
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BarnshaW
Member
Registered: 25th Oct 06
User status: Offline
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little tip, dont stop, i stopped training for 3 weeks and went to re train a few nights ago and i cannot lift the weights i was 3 weeks ago. amazing how much it has an effect.
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will_doyle
Banned
Registered: 25th Nov 08
Location: Exeter
User status: Offline
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Post up your daily diet
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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if you stop training for 4 weeks you can loose up to 20% of your strength and mass gains. Its good to take a week off every now and then though just for a full recover.
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Tom_Coe
Member
Registered: 9th Sep 07
Location: Rainham,Kent
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by slowandstandard
dbol, test, bish bash bosh, no complaints
Lmao I'm going for natural man
diet is pretty much
Wheatabix
Ravioli on toast before work
(creatine)
Pasta + Chicken bake for lunch
Dinner (what ever my mum cooks me when im back from work usually a meat with lots of veg)
Gym
Then Another meal when im back home usually more pasta
Really enjoying it at the moment aswell
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will_doyle
Banned
Registered: 25th Nov 08
Location: Exeter
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom_Coe
quote:
Originally posted by slowandstandard
dbol, test, bish bash bosh, no complaints
Lmao I'm going for natural man
diet is pretty much
Wheatabix
Ravioli on toast before work
(creatine)
Pasta + Chicken bake for lunch
Dinner (what ever my mum cooks me when im back from work usually a meat with lots of veg)
Gym
Then Another meal when im back home usually more pasta
Really enjoying it at the moment aswell
That diet is really poor
try something like this
Meal 1
30g whey
2 yolks, 6 whites scrambled
4 slices of granary toast
glass of orange juice
Meal 2
200g chicken breast
100g (dry weight) brown rice
10g olive oil
Piece of fruit
Meal 3
100g brown pasta
2 tins tuna
Pasta sauce
10g flax seed oil
Train
PWO
60g dextrose
30g whey
Meal 4
1 large baked potato
250g lean steak mince
Green beans
Meal 5
100g rice
200g chicken
10g olive oil
Green beans
Meal 6
300g cottage cheese
50g peanut butter
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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Too many carbs, thats the good old bulk and cut diet of a bodybuilder on gear and that system is obsolete now.
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