Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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Would take work of honest law abiding citizens too.
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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Moestavern. I am referring back to the original post though here. Im not trying to come up with a new system idea.
Guy pours acid over a womans face for no good reason, and from what others have said on here, the punishment he is getting is out of order when it clearly isnt. The womans life has been scared and im not just talking about her face.
It seems people are happy for criminals to be locked up whether its down to costs or not, at the end of the day theres not enough money in the world that would cover a persons life yet those who take them away from families are treated fairly in the uk.
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
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Scoot - why would pouring acid in the offenders face make that womens mental or physical pain any better?
Seriously - how would inflicting such a horrific injury on someone else help her deal with what has happened? You might feel like you want that kind of revenge in the short term - but in the long term - if you knew you had been responsible for taking that revenge - even if you didnt do it yourself - most people would have trouble dealing with that.
He may well deserve acid in his face - but if this women does it, willingly - how is she any different from the offender? I know he is worse than her .. ....but objectively - the only difference is his attack came first and was unprovoked - her attack on him came second and was premeditated and state sanctioned ... but the end result is you have thrown acid in his face, and he has thrown acid in her face .... how does this help anyone, or prevent further crime? People who committ this kind of offence do not think about the reprecussions - just as this guy in iran didnt care about the reprocussions of his actions.
There is a big argument amongst councellers of post traumatic stress that it is very important that the punishment a criminal gets is fair and humane.... it is thought that victims of crime are able to better recover mentally if they clearly see themselves as a victim .... if you know you were harmed by someone breaking the law, that you didnt deserve it, and that the offender is being dealt with in a proportional way - you can better deal with things and move on....In america many families of murder victims have had serious problems with dealing with the execution of the offender.... Not only has you family member been killed- but you have then unwillingly had an influence in another life being ended by execution - thats very hard for most people to deal with - even though in the short term you will probably want bloody revenge. There are numerous cases of the families of a murder victim asking the court to give a prison sentance rather than the death penalty. Many people will find it does not help them in the long term to take physical revenge even if it was state sanctioned - it would leave guilt with most people .... thats why law abiding sane people like us would never committ an offence like this - because we are not mentally capable of it, we havnt got it in us to cause a human being harm like this...just because it is state sanctioned, and in response to a crime, doesnt mean you could hurt a criminal and just instantly feel great about it and go on with your life
Its almost impossible to stop this kind of act - you cant see it coming more often than not ...the best chance you have is to diagnose these kind of mental issues early in life and attempt to treat them .... we all had nutters in our school - by 12 years old you could pick out the weirdos, the loners, and the trouble makers ...thats what we should concentrate on - spending time and money on sorting these poeple out when they are young .... not ignoring the problem and then cutting their hands off or killing them when the inevitable happens
If you went through your life constantly taking exact revenge on anyone who does a bad thing to you, hurts you, ect ect you would end up in a pretty dark place.
[Edited on 16-05-2011 by Dr Pepper]
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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If this happened over here i bet she would feel worse knowing he can still see out both eyes, as well as not having a face that will get a lot of attention and mostly not being punished enough.
A lot of people change from being kids. I know people who were quiet at school but starting stressing out due to work and eventually ended up in a mental hosp. He now hangs about with all, what you would call, the school bullies and this person used to get bullied.
You cant decide how someones life will turn out by knowing what group they are in at school.
Little young offenders who are perfectly normal but because they are young they dont give a fuck, which is basically the start of it all.
Theres a difference between someone stealing your chocolate bar to someone ruining your life.
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
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quote:
Originally posted by sc0ott
If this happened over here i bet she would feel worse knowing he can still see out both eyes, as well as not having a face that will get a lot of attention and mostly not being punished enough.
A lot of people change from being kids. I know people who were quiet at school but starting stressing out due to work and eventually ended up in a mental hosp. He now hangs about with all, what you would call, the school bullies and this person used to get bullied.
You cant decide how someones life will turn out by knowing what group they are in at school.
Little young offenders who are perfectly normal but because they are young they dont give a fuck, which is basically the start of it all.
Theres a difference between someone stealing your chocolate bar to someone ruining your life.
there are always exceptions from the rule ... but I simply dont belive you if you say you couldnt spot kids at primary school, secondry school who were going to have problems and end up in trouble in later life.
If this happened over here - maybe she would feel better knowing the offender is locked up in a jail - rather than having to deal with the emotional effects of throwing acid in the offenders face ..something i very much doubt she will even be capable of when it comes down to it.
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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Thats like saying an ugly kid will grow up to be a model or every black kid will end up in jail because they stole your bike. Doesnt always pan out like that.
When youre young you act young. Wanting to try drink, drugs and vagina. Doesnt always lead to a happy ending, which can also lead to bad decisions in life.
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
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quote:
Originally posted by sc0ott
Thats like saying an ugly kid will grow up to be a model or every black kid will end up in jail because they stole your bike. Doesnt always pan out like that.
When youre young you act young. Wanting to try drink, drugs and vagina. Doesnt always lead to a happy ending, which can also lead to bad decisions in life.
You have lost me with this post im afraid? I think I have made myself pretty clear here- I havnt got much more to say....you havnt said one thing which has made punishment like this look like a good idea.
Its bloody, cold blooded revenge - thats all it is. It isnt a detterent at all. It wont stop horrific incidents like this happening - and i can not understand how carrying out the exact offence committed on you, back on your offender would possibly help you deal with things any better....most people wouldnt want to do it, or be able to do it .... thats what seperates us from criminals - morals and humanity .... once you start degrading your own morals to scar an offender in this way you are on a downward slide to a completely barbaric society ... you might think its bad now ... but trust me - compared to hundreds of years ago - we are pretty nice bunch, and this country(despite what the daily mail says) is a relatively safe and nice place to live..... we dont need to take advice and criminal justice from a despotic, religiously manic regime like they have in iran
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Lynny
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Registered: 3rd Jan 03
Location: oop north! Where people talk properly
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Just watch that episode of family guy, Peter Griffin complained that he used to be bullied, then when he did it to someone else he enjoyed it and did it more.... 
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Rickavo
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Registered: 2nd Jul 09
Location: Manchester
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quote:
Originally posted by Lynny
I mean restoritve justice where they work to pay back a debt to victims/families. I'd say standing at the side of the M1 picking up litter is a crap job yea
If any of my family were murdered and the killer was punished by being made to pick litter on the m1 id be pretty pissed off tbh
Ive done comunity service and its actually quite a laugh
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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Who said it has to make things better. How can you make something better knowing your son or mother was killed after being mugged. Anyone in the situation would want the worst for the suspect, whether they have the choice or not the last thing they want them to go through would be an easy jailterm.
I would feel better knowing they were dead than to be given the oppertunity to return to the street.
Life for a life. Anyone good enough to take a life should have theirs taken from them.
Why does it have to be a good idea in a way that it has to work fully with no downside? Many places have certain people who everyone seems to know because of the amount of damage and havick they cause only a daily, if not weekly basis. Things like enforcing greater punishments on them would easily benefit because clearly charging them doesnt work, and its the public who suffer.
[Edited on 17-05-2011 by sc0ott]
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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quote:
Originally posted by Rickavo
quote:
Originally posted by Lynny
I mean restoritve justice where they work to pay back a debt to victims/families. I'd say standing at the side of the M1 picking up litter is a crap job yea
If any of my family were murdered and the killer was punished by being made to pick litter on the m1 id be pretty pissed off tbh
Ive done comunity service and its actually quite a laugh
Exactly. But it just goes to show there are people who would choose they serve jail + community service over having them punished more. Theres always the chance it would have an affect going forward, whether that be the same person, criminals he knows or ones who commit crimes all the time.
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Lynny
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Registered: 3rd Jan 03
Location: oop north! Where people talk properly
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quote:
Originally posted by sc0ott
quote:
Originally posted by Rickavo
quote:
Originally posted by Lynny
I mean restoritve justice where they work to pay back a debt to victims/families. I'd say standing at the side of the M1 picking up litter is a crap job yea
If any of my family were murdered and the killer was punished by being made to pick litter on the m1 id be pretty pissed off tbh
Ive done comunity service and its actually quite a laugh
Exactly. But it just goes to show there are people who would choose they serve jail + community service over having them punished more. Theres always the chance it would have an affect going forward, whether that be the same person, criminals he knows or ones who commit crimes all the time.
the two sentences were not linked, granted I should have used different paragraphs and for this I apologise. I'm not saying murderers should pick up litter and that will make the family better at all. I meant victims of say burglary/criminal damage; where by someone has ruined an old lady's house, the offender is forced to clean, tidy, decorate etc for them. There's a big difference between community service and restoritive justice and of course it has to be agreed by the victim. I wasn't suggesting this was an answer to murder, my initial statement was in response to the legal system in general and if punishments are harsh enough.
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