Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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was chatting to some people at work yesterday and the subject of the shallow bowl of talent we currently have in terms of english players.
why have we stopped producing the like of the beckhams, owens, shearers etc, nearly every tournament we would have had a new young player burst on the scene in some form in the past.
But its all dried up and it seems odd considering the general passion for football in this country.
Do we think its cultural? eg kids these days are more interested in playing football on there xbox then getting outside and doing it, or is it just a bit of a drought in big talent and its just a matter of time for the next big thing?
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Fro
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There are a lot of talented youngsters but the majority are rotting away in reserve teams or being loaned to lower leagues.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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If they were that good they wouldn't be though would they? If they are why are they
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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Same thing happened to scotland
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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the simple truth is that spain have la masia, france had clarefontaine etc ect and weve had nothing. i do think the st georges park thing will do the workd of good, as will the 25 squad limit and HG rule in time. Also the big clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd, City and Liverpool have been pouring funds into youth academies and squads.
In the past few seasons weve brought Wilshere through who is and will be world class (if we ever get him fit!), now buildign on the dvelopment from Soton of AOC, who is also the real deal IMO, with a few other really good prospects not too far away.
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Marc
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Location: York
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I'm going to be controversial here and say -
Young PL players get loaned out to a Championship club as there are already established players in their position, or the manager brings in an establisted foreginer. The young player spends a season on loan with the option of the club buying them. They then stop developing as a player and stay at Championship level.
All imo of course, bu how many United players have been loaned out in reasons years and become permanant transfers. Eagles went, I know he ended up at Bolton, who have incidently being relegated to championship! A couple have been sold to Leicester, list goes on.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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Attitude and money have a lot to do with it too, Jermaine Pennant and David Bentley are 2 big examples of wasting serious talent because of becomign semi famous and making money
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Robbo
Attitude and money have a lot to do with it too, Jermaine Pennant and David Bentley are 2 big examples of wasting serious talent because of becomign semi famous and making money
I remember when Bentley scored that glorious goal for us when he was about 19, think against middlesbrough at Highbury and everyone was banging on about how good he was going to be. I really liked him at Arsenal but he just turned out to be a bit (a lot) of a douche.
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Tom
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Definitely a mixture of too many foreign players in the PL, poor grass roots and academy training, and big egos. I remember the days it was considered uncool for kids to go and buy a flash motor until they had really made it, now they've all got them as soon as they sign on as pro's at 17 and 18.
There's loads of good young players out their but it's too easy for them to get swallowed up into obscurity for one of the above reasons.
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corsajay88
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Location: Upton, Cheshire
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my mate from school went through the united youth system, played a couple of games for the first team. then got loaned out to qpr, then signed for oldham athletic. there not enough room for young players even lower teams will sign foreign players before youth players obviously there are a few exceptions but i think most are not given the chance to reach their full potential
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Hammer
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There's no volume of players being brought through and a distinct lack of urgency to deal with it from the FA.
The fact you can hand pick the decent prospects says it all, even nations like Belgium have a shitload of prospects coming through at the one time.
Despite the fact they never qualified I would actually prefer to have Belgium's squad than England's.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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Belgium have a very strong squad but an average manager and little cohesion
Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Kompany, Defour, Fellaini, Hazard... all would probs get in our squad! Then thye have greta prospects like de Bruyne (did he sign for chels yet?), Courtois, Lukaku etc.
Belgian league ahs some good players, Lucas Biglia and Matias Suarez at Anderlecht in particular, Defour at Liege etc.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom
Definitely a mixture of too many foreign players in the PL, poor grass roots and academy training, and big egos. I remember the days it was considered uncool for kids to go and buy a flash motor until they had really made it, now they've all got them as soon as they sign on as pro's at 17 and 18.
There's loads of good young players out their but it's too easy for them to get swallowed up into obscurity for one of the above reasons.
Agree with all of the above.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Walby
quote:
Originally posted by Robbo
Attitude and money have a lot to do with it too, Jermaine Pennant and David Bentley are 2 big examples of wasting serious talent because of becomign semi famous and making money
I remember when Bentley scored that glorious goal for us when he was about 19, think against middlesbrough at Highbury and everyone was banging on about how good he was going to be. I really liked him at Arsenal but he just turned out to be a bit (a lot) of a douche.
4-1 vs boro 
Remember Pennant and Pires' joint hattricks against Soton too
Now look at the pair of them, Pennant got yet another jail sentence and Bentley currently rotting in the Spuds ressies on a hilarious fee 
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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And didn't you declare him the successor to Beckham?! (snigger) 
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
And didn't you declare him the successor to Beckham?! (snigger)
Not like Arsenal to big up shit youngsters...
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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Just got Russia in the sweepstakes 
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Just got Russia in the sweepstakes
Ours is always won by some retard.
'Spain? Are they any good?'.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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Robbo
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
And didn't you declare him the successor to Beckham?! (snigger)
quite possibly yes. had he kept his focus and attitude and stayed with us then he would have been a top top player, went on loan to norwich, did great but when he came back he bitched and moaned and was a cunt... now he cant even make it into the spuds reserves
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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A lot also comes down to the money in the sport now.
In previous years young talent was cheap talent so it was always good to bring them through. Now young "english" talent is often very$$$$ talent.
Fact is you can often get a young french / dutch player for a fraction of a equally skilled english player. Often you would get an international foreign young kid for the same price as an english 'prospect' with no international expereince.
Also the need for results means its much harder for a younger player to come into the team and settle in, having a few bad games. In the old days it would be head up but now your on the bench and waiting a long time to get your chance again.
I also think many players think its their right to be playing at a top club. Bentley was the perfect example, really kicked off about not getting his chance in the first squad but at the time he was not good enough....a few months after he left there were a few injuries and youth players were getting thier chance (can't remember who it was that came in and did really well in midfield where he would have come in)
...so its lots and lots of things I think.
[Edited on 18-05-2012 by Rob_Quads]
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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English player tax also stems from teams not wanting to lose English players before the new homegrown rules come in.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
'Spain? Are they any good?'.
We got Italy at work once, had to give a brief history lesson.
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Just got Russia in the sweepstakes
Ours is always won by some retard.
'Spain? Are they any good?'.
I got Czech Republic in the one I did with my mates.
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p
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Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
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quote:
Originally posted by Robbo
Belgium have a very strong squad but an average manager and little cohesion
Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Kompany, Defour, Fellaini, Hazard... all would probs get in our squad! Then thye have greta prospects like de Bruyne (did he sign for chels yet?), Courtois, Lukaku etc.
Belgian league ahs some good players, Lucas Biglia and Matias Suarez at Anderlecht in particular, Defour at Liege etc.
Yeah he's our player too.
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