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Author Pigeons in a truck, on a weighbridge
Tomnova16
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Registered: 21st Jan 06
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25th Oct 12 at 16:31   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
stephen fry said it would weigh the same on QI
to do with the total mass, if it was open top then it would be different

http://www.lemass.co.uk/ for all your automotive/bodyshop needs
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pow
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25th Oct 12 at 17:30   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
I remember that QI
BluKoo
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25th Oct 12 at 17:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
When the pigeons fly they force air downwards. The force/weight of that air would be equal to or greater than the weight of the pigeon. Therefore there would be no difference.

[Edited on 25-10-2012 by BluKoo]
sand-eel
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25th Oct 12 at 18:06   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Assuming the truck is completely air tight.
sand-eel
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25th Oct 12 at 18:08   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
What if the pigeons were kept up by helium bags then it couldn't weigh the same.
John
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25th Oct 12 at 18:29   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
It's nothing to do with the truck being air tight, it's all simple physics but mythbusters have done it in practice, as said.

Noob question tbh.
3CorsaMeal
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25th Oct 12 at 18:37   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Steve will soon be offering passenger laps to pigeons.
Toby
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26th Oct 12 at 15:21   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Welsh Dan
Season 5, Episode 8. Can't find it on the toob. I think the result was that it still weighs the same, as there is a downforce exerted by the birds wings.


Thats surprising that a bird can provide its own weight in downforce.
Gary
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26th Oct 12 at 16:03   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
How else would it fly?
Steve
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26th Oct 12 at 16:08   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
You would have thought that it would only apply an equal force on the direct air around it and that the force would disperse.

Same as a bird flying above the ground wouldnt be exterting a force on the ground only on the air around it, and the same way the further you stand away from a jet engine the less you feel it.

Id imagine for this scenario the truck would have to be air tight
Ian
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26th Oct 12 at 16:12   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
It doesn't scale though, if you had a massive box with them in, how on earth is the air going to affect the bottom? Or is this an Doric speech of Syracuse question?
Bonney
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26th Oct 12 at 17:44   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Heres one, Does a tanker full of helium weigh less than an empty tank? (As it is lighter than air)
Ian
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26th Oct 12 at 17:50   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
If its sealed, yes, hence why airships float, because the lift from the contents overcomes the weight of the structure.

I just couldn't see how the birds thing would work, I can see the theory but just couldn't see it working. Like if the bird stopped flying and became a missile, would the truck get heavier just before the bird hits the floor?
ed
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26th Oct 12 at 17:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Weight is the force of an object due to gravity. Reduce the mass, reduce the weight. The tanker would weigh less if it had a tank full of helium, just as it would weigh more if it had a tank of water.

You answered it by telling us helium weighs less than air anyway.
ed
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26th Oct 12 at 17:56   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
The pigeons one is simple if you think about it rationally too. People seem to think that flight is this magical thing and that air is not real - think of something that flys as a boat and the air as water. If the truck was on a weigh bridge and had a boat floating in said water, you wouldn't think that the boat was exerting no force on the truck would you.
Bonney
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26th Oct 12 at 17:56   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Wander how it would wash with VOSA with the pidgeons,

"Drive, Your overweight need to unload a few"

"You sure officer, i was the right weight when i set out, the feckers must ave jumped!"
Steve
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26th Oct 12 at 18:02   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ed
The pigeons one is simple if you think about it rationally too. People seem to think that flight is this magical thing and that air is not real - think of something that flys as a boat and the air as water. If the truck was on a weigh bridge and had a boat floating in said water, you wouldn't think that the boat was exerting no force on the truck would you.


water is different from air like a solid is different from water. The molecules are further apart in air than water, and hence wont transfer forces in the same way. Exactly like your brakes are spongy when they have air in them

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