JM_16v
Member
Registered: 17th Oct 05
Location: Essex Drives: GLC63S
User status: Offline
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Ive bought the worse car out of the 20 i have owned its a volvo c30.
Its with them now and they are advising 2 injectors need replacing to fix an intermittent cutting out fault.
What liability do they have if they replace parts and the fault persists. Its a vast sum of money.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Hate this, I've always had an issue with having to pay for replaced parts that dont actually fix the problem.
My view is it should be reasonable to ask to have the parts removed again, and no charge applied.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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If they've diagnosed it that should be the case should it not?
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Whenever iv seen this discussed before iv only ever see people saying they have had to pay for the incorrect parts anyway as its accepted that sometimes its the only way to diagnose a fault (through means of elimination)
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JM_16v
Member
Registered: 17th Oct 05
Location: Essex Drives: GLC63S
User status: Offline
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They are a profession so should be held accountable for there decision.
Im a surveyor and if i gave bad advise which resulted in my clients going bankrupt i wouldnt get paid!
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Brett
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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This is what used to annoy me at garages, trial and error bullshit at my expense 
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Ellis
Member
Registered: 11th Sep 07
Location: Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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I've been [partially] successfully with Audi in a similar situation. Twice they have incorrectly diagnosed 2 faults and fitted parts with costly labour bills. On both occasions I have managed to get over 50% deducted from the bill. I would be embarrassed to charge a customer anything if I did not repair the fault they requested me to.
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Neo
Member
Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
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How long ago did you buy the car ? Did you buy it from them ?
I know of a guy on another forum I'm on who bought a dog of a car, kept taking it back for parts to be changed without it fixing the problem and in the end he literally left the car there and asked for a refund.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/cars-and-other-vehicles/problems-with-the-car-you-bought/the-car-you-bought-is-faulty/
Don't know where you'd stand with them buying parts and it not fixing the issue though.
[Edited on 22-05-2015 by Neo]
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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I was in VW and overheard them on the phone, quoting £58 for 30mins diagnostics.
Its why i don't buy cars from a dealer, would rather waste my money myself.
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JM_16v
Member
Registered: 17th Oct 05
Location: Essex Drives: GLC63S
User status: Offline
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Bought the car from general dealer not from them, its more the question if they give poor advise by not fixing the problem what is the comeback.
Your engines cut out, change all the injectors, oh that hasnt fixed it, now try your ecu etc etc
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Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
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I have experienced similar issues.
Took car to reputable garage with concerns on broken part (reason for fault) asked them to diagnose and fix.
They wasted £300 of my money trying all sorts of things before eventually trying what I told them it was likely to be when I bought the car in and lo and behold it was the issue and it was fixed.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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I would guess it'll start and run with two injectors completely disconnected so quite how it would cut out if two are faulty I'm not sure.
In the olden days you could swap them and see if your misfire codes moved but I would think you have some CAN bus coding bullshit to deal with so its not even like you can switcharoo them yourself.
But it does seem strange that its clever enough to shut down on what they're claiming is a physical fault but its not clever enough to be sure.
I'd also question why its two. Have they both failed simultaneously? And do they both repair themselves at the same time?
In my limited experience you need something common to all chambers to stall it, and that normally means air supply and a misreported rich condition which the ECU seeks to trim down. But I might be talking shit on the modern stuff, they're a whole world more pain.
Certainly wouldn't be paying someone else to guess though.
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Mattb
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
User status: Offline
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From the standpoint of someone who works at a main dealer I would say this. If it doesnt fix it, dont pay for it.
It should be long gone the days of guessing what wrong with a car at someone elses expense. For me where i work its not acceptable to say something is faulty and then it not fix an issue. Every part replaced needs to be justified.
As for the actual fault, its possible for pair of injectors to be at fault. There a handful of reasons, and i would want to know why if i was forking out for a pair. I would also worry about how long the other two were going to last.
It could be an electrical defect, if the solenoids are shorting to the the housing of the injector then it would drag the rest of the injectors down. Essentially is easier for the voltage for the injectors to go straight to earth through that short than through the solenoids themselves. Never seen it on a common rail injector however, seen it plenty on VAG pumpe duse, but thats normally a permenant fault resulting in a non start.
Another could be the injectors leaking back due to wear internally. Common rail injectors have really tight tolerances (hence the need to code them to the engine ecu) and when they operate they do wear. This in theory could result in a lower than expected pressure in the fuel rail and resuly in cutting out, however i would expect there to be some rough running issues in conjunction with this. This should also be easily diagnosible and could potentially explain whyit would appear all of a sudden you need two injectors.
My advise would be this. Make sure they know you wont pay for the injectors or fitting if it doesnt cure your issue. Ask them what is exactly wrong with the injectors. If they cant answer that, then they themselves arent sure.
Hope that helps in some way.....
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JM_16v
Member
Registered: 17th Oct 05
Location: Essex Drives: GLC63S
User status: Offline
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Cheers Mattb/Ian et al.
I questioned them at length and they said they had been tested and they were definatly faulty. Issue with them is they wont let you speak to the mechanic just some jumped up salesman that doesnt know what an injector looks like.
I told them about that i need it to fix the issue and i wont accept the car until its fixed on that basis.
just need it back to sell it
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mattievRS
Member
Registered: 20th May 06
Location: Leicester
User status: Offline
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I'd ask them to give you the Volvo codes to be able to search around the Internet a little, this would give a chance get a little more knowledge and ammo should their diagnosis not fix the car. Know anyone with vida who would scan it for you?
Is the car a diesel or petrol?
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ShEp
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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I'd echo Matt's comment,
My dad had his A3 in at the main audi dealer, to have a recall done on the coilpacks, and a software update.
The recall was never going to be charged, but he didn't mind paying for the latest software update.
The coils went fine, but they said when they updated the software the car wouldn't start, they spent over a week on it, and in the end put a new ECU on it,
My dad was fully expecting to have to pay something, but when he went in to pick the car up they said no charge at all, and he had a brand new courtesy car for the week.
Can't fault the service we've both had at Audi.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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So they broke the car and your dad was expecting to pay for them to fix it again? then was surprised when he didnt have to?
Either I'm missing something, or your family are a bit simple.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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I'd not expect to pay - it went in for a recall and they decided to do more work and break it.
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ShEp
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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The software wasn't part of the recall,
During discussions on the phone they blamed the ecu fault on the probability of it having had a remap in the past, (no idea if it has or not)
Thats why he was expecting to have to pay something.
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Mattb
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by ShEp
The software wasn't part of the recall,
During discussions on the phone they blamed the ecu fault on the probability of it having had a remap in the past, (no idea if it has or not)
Thats why he was expecting to have to pay something.
The most likely explination would be that they tried to update the engine control unit software via Bluetooth and the connection dropped out. Scraps the control unit most of the time if that happens. Should always be a wired connection.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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Can't beat a wire!
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Corsa_Sport21
Member
Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Mattb
quote:
Originally posted by ShEp
The software wasn't part of the recall,
During discussions on the phone they blamed the ecu fault on the probability of it having had a remap in the past, (no idea if it has or not)
Thats why he was expecting to have to pay something.
The most likely explination would be that they tried to update the engine control unit software via Bluetooth and the connection dropped out. Scraps the control unit most of the time if that happens. Should always be a wired connection.
Even with a wired connection it can brick the ecu if the voltage drops below 12v.
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