Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
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As far as I know the law is that a mobile police camera has to be 200m past a sign notifying drivers that there may be camera's around.
Well if this is correct then where are they actually allowed to take your speed at??
When I was caught I believe he was taking my speed down whilst I was still within those 200m, can they do this? Does the law just relate to where they are stood or where they can check your speed at?? Because if he were to have got me within to 200m I would have reason for the speed because I had just come out of a 60 zone, also if he aint allowed to take my speed within those 200m then the charge cannot stand.
Also am I within my rights to ask for photographic evidence?? I have already admitted I was driving just want to sort all this before I actually pay them and take the points, if I have to.
Also anyone noticed its a bit shit how if anyone on a provisional were to contend their points and were to loose they would instantly be banned because of the doubled points, not to mention the £1000 fine.
[Edited on 14-01-2004 by Makarus]
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Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
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Come on people, need help with this, time is running out and want to know if I have any grounds on what I am thinking.
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sammySXI
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Registered: 28th Oct 03
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You can ask for a copy of the photo.
I've not tried any of this so its up to you but i read on another forum last year that a bloke asked for the following 4 times and got off.
ask to see the original photo not a copy
a copy of the camera's calibration report
maintenence report on camera
a copy of the certificate of the engineer who installed it
As i say I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL WORK OR NOT SO ITS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO TRY IT.
I've got 9 points on mine but didnt know about any of this or i would've tried myself.
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Trucido
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Registered: 14th Jun 03
Location: Bristol
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lmao where did you learn to drive...you do not have a reason to speed as soon as you pass a sign, the law states you must be doing the speed on the sign as you pass through the signs...you were speeding deal with it :s
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nickyboy01
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
Location: Oxford-ish
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They can put a mobile speed trap wherever they feel the need, theres no guidelines stating distance within a speed limit etc. As Trucido said you have to be travelling at the posted speed as you enter the limit not slowing down after you enter it. I know we dont do that but that is what you'll find the law is on the matter.
You can request photographic evidence if you wish but you were travelling above the posted speed limit, you have nothing to go on i'm afraid.
[Edited on 12-01-2004 by nickyboy01]
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Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
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Well as far as I have been informed there is a law regarding the distance inside a sign before they are allowed to actually have a camera, so I am sure there is a law regarding how far inside the sign they are allowed to take the picture.
The reason they dont have the camera's less than 200m inside the sign is so that you have time to correct your speed.
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paul_spurrell
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Registered: 14th Sep 01
Location: Bath Avon
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at the end of the day you got caught speeding!! Its against the law to speed so just face it!
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Craig6682
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Registered: 8th Apr 03
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That's a bit harst Nova boy
[Edited on 12-01-2004 by Boyrac3r]
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Craig6682
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Registered: 8th Apr 03
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^^^^^^
[Edited on 12-01-2004 by Boyrac3r]
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paul_spurrell
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Registered: 14th Sep 01
Location: Bath Avon
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i aint got a nova
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Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
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Well you have a picture of a Nova.
What I will say to those who comment along the lines of "You were speeding, your own fault take the points" then I put this to you.
1) Have you ever broke the speed limit, if you say yes then I believe you, if you say no you are a lier. Everyone speeds, some people get caught, I dont speed all the time, I aint a mad speeding boy racer, but when you get caught coasting down a hill that is completly void of traffic causing no danger doing 36 in a 30 zone then you may understand where I am coming from.
2) Granted I was breaking the law, but then again I get [punished for it, if they were indeed breaking the law to find out I was breaking the law then its good ground to do something about it, like I say if I gbreak the law I get done so why shouldnt I check if they were breaking the law too.
Can anyone else shed a bit more light on this matter??
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Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
User status: Offline
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Anyone??
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vibrio
Banned
Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
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quote:
Originally posted by Makarus
As far as I know the law is that a mobile police camera has to be 200m past a sign notifying drivers that there may be camera's around.
Well if this is correct then where are they actually allowed to take your speed at??
When I was caught I believe he was taking my speed down whilst I was still within those 200m, can they do this? Does the law just relate to where they are stood or where they can check your speed at?? Because if he were to have got me within to 200m I would have reason for the speed because I had just come out of a 60 zone, also if he aint allowed to take my speed within those 200m then the charge cannot stand.
Also am I within my rights to ask for photographic evidence?? I have already admitted I was driving just want to sort all this before I actually pay them and take the points, if I have to.
Also anyone noticed its a bit shit how if anyone on a provisional were to contend their points and were to loose they would instantly be banned because of the doubled points, not to mention the £1000 fine.
[Edited on 14-01-2004 by Makarus]
it does not matter if they ctach you and they are not playing by the advice the goverment has provided. all that happens is that they lose the right to use the fines to put up more speed cameras. so long as they have the calibration record for the streatch of road you were cought on then they can fine and give you points
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cdcool1
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Registered: 9th Jun 02
Location: Scunny
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quote:
Originally posted by sammySXI
You can ask for a copy of the photo.
I've not tried any of this so its up to you but i read on another forum last year that a bloke asked for the following 4 times and got off.
ask to see the original photo not a copy
a copy of the camera's calibration report
maintenence report on camera
a copy of the certificate of the engineer who installed it
As i say I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL WORK OR NOT SO ITS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO TRY IT.
I've got 9 points on mine but didnt know about any of this or i would've tried myself.
by asking for these things, you are denying that you were speeding. i spoke to my birds dad (as he's an ex copper), and to ask for the calibration reports, you already have to of denied speeding, and they would be produced in court.
however, if you do this, and you are then found guilty of speeding, you will be facing a MUCH larger fine, and (i think) more points
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
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ok.
the law states there must be signs within 1000m of the camera site specifying that camera enforcement is in operation (the gatso signs we've become accustomed to). this measurement may have been amended to 1 mile or 1500m but I haven't checked recently.
there is no law specifying a grace period within which you av to slow down after passing a new speed posting. ACPO guidelines suggest that 50-100m is allowed where it is safe and the slowing down late doesn't cause a hazard to other road users or pedestrians. The officer can exercise his discretion and "catch" you the moment you cross the line. It's harsh though, unless there's a proven accident history at that site in which case most would argue he's entirely justified (though I'd also say they should move the posting further out to make people slow down earlier).
ACPO guidelines are flexible to a degree and are not law in themselves and an officer is to use common sense in the application of the law.
For example, as my riding was perfectly safe in the circumstances I got an SP50 3 points and £60 when I got clocked at nearly twice the speed limit on a motorway, and just a telling off by herts police for 128mph passing on the inside on the M1.
Depends how stupid your offence was, how good your driving was (You'd have to demonstrate pretty high skills to get off the hook with what would normally be a court appearance) and the circumstances surrounding you at the time.
If you KNOW you were speeding there's nothing you can do really unless you're prepared to purjor yourself in court if taken all the way. Asking for photos, calibration certs etc is just going to delay the inevitable if you can't use them to prove you weren't speeding - HOWEVER it is worth asking cos if they aint got them they'll drop the case quick-sharp. If you're late in responding as a result of waiting for them and they CAN produce them, and you end up going beyond the time limit for a fixed penalty endorsement it means court and they'll go to town on you for what they consider being an arse and trying to squirm out of it (even though they do the same - remember those 2 who got off cos the warning signs had the wrong colour borders??).
good luck.
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by cdcool1
quote:
Originally posted by sammySXI
You can ask for a copy of the photo.
I've not tried any of this so its up to you but i read on another forum last year that a bloke asked for the following 4 times and got off.
ask to see the original photo not a copy
a copy of the camera's calibration report
maintenence report on camera
a copy of the certificate of the engineer who installed it
As i say I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL WORK OR NOT SO ITS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO TRY IT.
I've got 9 points on mine but didnt know about any of this or i would've tried myself.
by asking for these things, you are denying that you were speeding. i spoke to my birds dad (as he's an ex copper), and to ask for the calibration reports, you already have to of denied speeding, and they would be produced in court.
however, if you do this, and you are then found guilty of speeding, you will be facing a MUCH larger fine, and (i think) more points
sort of right - thats the official police line.
HOWEVER...
you have the right to information that can form a part of your defence when taken to court and not just wait until they're produced on the day.
lso a polite but firm letter stating that:
1) you can't remember being there at that time and want a photo to try and identify who was driving.
2) you want the calibration certificate because when you HAVE been at that site you've been careful not to speed so would like verification.
Without both together you won't be able to remember who was driving and want verification before you potentially incriminate yourself (as you have the right not to incriminate youself either verbally or in writing and for them to coerce you into doing so is in itself illegal and you will seek advice about civil action).
good luck once more.
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Makarus
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Registered: 25th Jun 02
Location: Nottingham/Derbyshire Boarder.
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Cheers for the help mate, know anything about the actual poitioning as in the distance from a sign saying that there are mobile camera's operating?? Sure its 200m and I think he was just over that distance, but logic suggests he caught me within those 200m so I aint sure about the legallities of this.
Note that I am talking about the sign telling me there may be mobile camera's operating in the area, not a sign telling me the speed.
I have alrteady replied to say I was driving, but I do still want to see the evidence and calibration reports, I may well ring them tomorrow and request this, I only have until the 2nd of Feb before I have to have taken the point and fine or it will lead to court proceedings.
Also doesn't the copper have to have a reflective jacket on when using a mobile camera outside the van, also doesn't he have to be visible from a certain distance, i.e he cant hide behind a bus stop??
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
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depends if it was a copper operating in a car or a partnership scheme vehicle.
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starkmotorsport
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Registered: 27th Apr 02
Location: Scotland
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If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. Its that simple.
And yes, I have been done for speeding etc. I accepted it and took what I was given. Grow up and take responsibilities for your actions.
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nickyboy01
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
Location: Oxford-ish
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Mobile speeed traps are not required to have signs informing road users of their use or that the road users are approaching one although some forces use them there are no requirement to do so. The vans used do have to have high visability markings although this varies between police forces depending on their enforcement policies. The people operating the camera vans are not serving police officers but an agency empoyed by the Police Force in question and again they have their own guidelines for wearing hi vis clothing etc but the hi-vis clothing is for thier safety not to warn drivers of an impending speed trap.
Mobile camera vans can sit on a motorway bridge and catch you before you even know its there in theory you shouldnt be speeding full stop so they have no case to answer.
As far as i know mobile speed traps are not required by law to make themselves obvious like a Gatso has to. I know of 3 mobile locations that can not be seen until the ladt min and they have been used for the past year or so
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
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quote:
Originally posted by starkmotorsport
If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. Its that simple.
And yes, I have been done for speeding etc. I accepted it and took what I was given. Grow up and take responsibilities for your actions.
and what if he wasn't?
point a radar gun at a wall and it'll be "moving" at 4mph.
point a laser gun into a bike's headlight and it'll read anything from 5 to 105 mph incorrectly due to mirror and lens configurations
gatso cameras have snapped people doing 18mph and tried to claim 51mph...
worth getting the pics isn't it, in order to establish if you actually did the crime they want you to do the time for.
if it'd been a roadside tug due to PILOT or VASCAR then fairy snuff 
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IntaCepta
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: Mill Hill East, Greater London
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got flashed the other day, mates are trying to scare the shit outta me.
but not too worried about it as
i) the gatso camera had no white lines marked on the road
ii) there are no camera signs at all in that area.
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starkmotorsport
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Registered: 27th Apr 02
Location: Scotland
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Well, Makarus says he was coming out of a 60 zone (I take it into a 30 or whatever) so he was between speeds.
Your legally meant to be at the speed of the area your going into ie. going into a 30, you have to be at 30 BEFORE the sign, so he was speeding.
As for not having camera signs all over the place, your not meant to be speeding anywhere, so they have a right to check your speed where ever they like.
Basically if your worried about being caught then stop speeding. Keep it for the track.
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