MoNkEy MaGiC
Member
Registered: 12th Apr 03
Location: West - London Drives: Corsa GSi
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my lil bro just had a accident in his punto!! 
basically... Empty 20mph zone road, Not speeding, no road markings at all, and the Toyota in front of him suddenly just pulls completely into the right lane with out indicating, were on comming traffic would be and comes almost to a stop!
my brother eases of the gas slightly and carries on going straight coz the Toyata gave no signal or sign! as he goes passed the Toyota (who is now to the right of him) next thing he knows the Toyota has come back into my bros lane without looking or any signal and smashed into my bros right rear quarter!
the Toyota driver was so stupid, the reason he pulled out that wide was to get a good angle to park up on the LEFT were their were LOADS of spaces available and was no need to pull that wide!!
he was shook and did not say much except its 50/50 fault because he thinks my bro was speeding and undertaking!!! BUT he said he was not gonna go to his insurance about it!
[Edited on 21-03-2005 by MoNkEy MaGiC]
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Adam_B
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Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
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totally the other persons fault from your story, especially if they didnt indicate.
[Edited on 21-03-2005 by Adam_B]
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Andrew
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Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
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Was it a one way street?
Sounds like the other drivers fault to me although the other driver must have slowed down in which case for your bro to catch up.
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Charlene
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Registered: 29th Sep 04
Location: Darlington
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Other driver i reckon but thats only from your story 
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Ditch
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Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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20mph zones are usually high street areas... which usually have LOTS of CCTV 
if your story is correct, get the video evidence..
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MoNkEy MaGiC
Member
Registered: 12th Apr 03
Location: West - London Drives: Corsa GSi
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its accurate to best of my lil bros knowledge, and he does not lie!
it was NOT a one way street!
my bro is little worried about it coz he reckons he should have stopped and if he WAS he allowed to undertake him??
which i think, it was his right of way so he did not have to stop especially coz the guy never indicated/signaled, and thats the only time you can undertake, according to the high way code, when the person in front wants to turn right or moves of to the right??
it happend on the road that runs along side the Bournmouth beech, if their is a dispute about it then yes i guess he could try CCTV footage if their was any, cheers "Ditch"
[Edited on 21-03-2005 by MoNkEy MaGiC]
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PaulW
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Registered: 26th Jan 03
Location: Atherton, Greater Manchester
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I'd say Toyota is at fault...
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PaulW
Member
Registered: 26th Jan 03
Location: Atherton, Greater Manchester
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btw...
get the CCTV footage now, as usually its only kept 24hours for 'immediate' incidents...
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Colin
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Registered: 4th Apr 02
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Sounds like his fault totally - he must give you his insurance details by law if hes being a cock just phone the police!!! I would have done it at the scene anyway
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James
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Registered: 1st Jun 02
Location: Surrey
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Do you mean the road by the imax cinema?
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
Sounds like his fault totally - he must give you his insurance details by law if hes being a cock just phone the police!!! I would have done it at the scene anyway
You sure about that. I did not think it was a legal requirement to provide your insurance details as you may want to persue the claim yourself/ payup yourself.
Pretty sure you have to give name and address if they ask but that all legally.
OK the policy might say they should be informed of an accident but thats a different argument.
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Rob_Quads
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
he must give you his insurance details by law if hes being a cock just phone the police!!!
Thought so....
quote:
No. You are required to produce insurance to a police officer if
requested, (s165 of the RTA 1988)
----------------------------
Any of the following persons
(a) a person driving a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage)
on a road, or
(b) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have
been the driver of a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) at
a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road, or
(c) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have
committed an offence in relation to the use on a road of a motor
vehicle (other than an invalid carriage),
must, on being so required by a constable, give his name and address
and the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and produce the
following documents for examination.
(2) Those documents are
(a) the relevant certificate of insurance or certificate of security
(within the meaning of Part VI of this Act), or such other evidence
that the vehicle is not or was not being driven in contravention of
section 143 of this Act as may be prescribed by regulations made by
the Secretary of State
-----------------------
You are also required to supply your name and address, and the same
details regarding the owner of the vehicle if different, in the case
where someone is injured, or damage is caused to a vehicle other than
your own (s170 of the RTA 1988)
---------------------------
(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a
motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of
that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by
that motor vehicle,
<snip>
(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do
so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his
name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the
identification marks of the vehicle.
(3) If for any reason the driver of the motor vehicle does not give
his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the
accident.
(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is
guilty of an offence.
(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection
(1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the
accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other
evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has
required him to produce it, the driver must report the accident and
produce such a certificate or other evidence.
(6) To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or
to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other
evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver
(a) must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b) must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case,
within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.
(7) A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5)
above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason
only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if,
within five days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate
or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified
by him at the time when the accident was reported.
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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i would of had horn held down from the point where he/she went right without indicating, then he/she would of know i was pissed off, maybe started using indicators and would of seen me behind em.
i stilll blame toyota tho, no indication, although that will have to be proved now.
i think its wrong when people brake before indicating too. mirror, signal, manouvere, i class braking as part of the manouvere. should signal first 
anyone else agree
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VegasPhil
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Jan 05
Location: Fareham, Hants Drives: Octavia VRS
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Do you mean the road by the imax cinema?
Sounds like the road that runs all along from Boscombe to Bournemouth Beach  . Used by the Road Train in the Summer. Think there's parking there. 
Corsa 2.0 16v Vegas - Sold
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James
Member
Registered: 1st Jun 02
Location: Surrey
User status: Offline
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oh i know where you mean, yeah it could be, id barely even call that a road tho 
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Colin
Member
Registered: 4th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Quads
quote:
Originally posted by Colin
Sounds like his fault totally - he must give you his insurance details by law if hes being a cock just phone the police!!! I would have done it at the scene anyway
You sure about that. I did not think it was a legal requirement to provide your insurance details as you may want to persue the claim yourself/ payup yourself.
Pretty sure you have to give name and address if they ask but that all legally.
OK the policy might say they should be informed of an accident but thats a different argument.
Dunno but I would have said that to him anyway....bet he would give you it 
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MoNkEy MaGiC
Member
Registered: 12th Apr 03
Location: West - London Drives: Corsa GSi
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by James
oh i know where you mean, yeah it could be, id barely even call that a road tho
yeah, with parking along side it, and thats what my bro was saying, "its not like a proper road" but still even if its not a normal road and had no road markings.. end of the day the Toyota drove into my bro's car!!
im just trying to think what the Toyota driver could say to twist the story against my bro coz their were no other witnesses, except for 2 passengers in toyota and 3 passengers in Punto!
but from the location of the damage to the cars, punto- right rear quarter, Toyota-front left wing.. i dont think theirs much the toyota driver could lie/twist the story about to the insurance company?
what you guys think???
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mav
Member
Registered: 19th Jun 01
Location: Scotland
User status: Offline
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sounds like the other persons fault for sure m8
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Stu
Member
Registered: 3rd May 00
Location: Madchester UK Drives: 2014 BMW M135i
User status: Offline
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Other persons fault but I think its very easy for him to change his story and your brothers car is the weaker car in the scenario.
Did you get any witnesses? If not Id say your bros is gonna get stung! Sorry pal!!!
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Stu
Member
Registered: 3rd May 00
Location: Madchester UK Drives: 2014 BMW M135i
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MoNkEy MaGiC
quote:
Originally posted by James
oh i know where you mean, yeah it could be, id barely even call that a road tho
yeah, with parking along side it, and thats what my bro was saying, "its not like a proper road" but still even if its not a normal road and had no road markings.. end of the day the Toyota drove into my bro's car!!
im just trying to think what the Toyota driver could say to twist the story against my bro coz their were no other witnesses, except for 2 passengers in toyota and 3 passengers in Punto!
but from the location of the damage to the cars, punto- right rear quarter, Toyota-front left wing.. i dont think theirs much the toyota driver could lie/twist the story about to the insurance company?
what you guys think???
The guy could say HE DID indicate and your bros has undertaken him! You will have a nightmare with this one! Took me 2 years to sort things out when someone pulled out on me with witnesses who said it was the other drivers fault!!!
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MoNkEy MaGiC
Member
Registered: 12th Apr 03
Location: West - London Drives: Corsa GSi
User status: Offline
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hmmm,
even if he said he did indicate, my bro could say it was only a 20mph zone and that he would have stopped coz he had lots of time to react! but still, my bro had right of way, and ive always thought that indicating is only to help other drivers not actually a legal-requirment??
and im sure, in this situation my bro was Allowed to undertake him
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Depends on the marking. The Toyota should not have entered a lane in which another vehicle was travelling regardless of whether this is deemed to be undertaking or not.
Also don't forget that you are legally allowed to pass on the near side under certain circumstances. You might have a difficult time arguing that one though as generally these exceptions are in place so that queues or people turning right do not impede the flow of traffic on multi-lane carriageways.
I'm sure one Toyota does not constitute a queue.
You need to be clear on the amount of time that your brother waited before passing the Toyota. If it was 10 seconds or more he may be able to argue that he considered the Toyota to have come to a stop. If it was a snap decision to whizz past then he doesn't have that defence.
My mate had a similar one in his tractor in which he went wide to enter a field and someone flew down the inside. No damage to the tractor tyre of course but the driver of the other car got a nice big deep rubber go faster stripe the length of her car. She ended up admitting fault and paying for her own repair.
Having said that, agricultural vehicles and HGVs etc. are given special dispensation for needing to swing wide. The guy in the Toyota would not be.
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Sam16v
Member
Registered: 10th May 04
Location: Caerphilly Drives:MGF
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MoNkEy MaGiC
ive always thought that indicating is only to help other drivers not actually a legal-requirment??
Thats what i thought to? it is only an "indication", so even if he pleads that he was indicating, that should make no difference as there was a vehicle in the lane/path that he wanted to enter...? 
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MoNkEy MaGiC
Member
Registered: 12th Apr 03
Location: West - London Drives: Corsa GSi
User status: Offline
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yeah, some good points their Ian
my bro was 2-3 car lengths behind the Toyota before it turned of!
the Toyota came to a stop roughly when my bro reached the rear bumper of the Toyota so their was only about 2-3 seconds gap! and then the Toyota turned and went into my bro's lane and hit him!
from when the Toyota entered the right lane to when it came back into the left lane and hit my bro's car is about 8 seconds!
would the fault not be considered on who had right of way though??
what will the insurance look for when they judge whos fault it was??
[Edited on 21-03-2005 by MoNkEy MaGiC]
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Greg_M
Member
Registered: 2nd Sep 03
Location: Grantham, Lincolnshire
User status: Offline
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the toyota would not need to turn out that wide anyway.
1 - the toyota enter the oposing side of the road with no indiccation
and 2 - dint signal, which implied no checking of mirrors ect.
so the move was 1 - a dangerous one and 2) not needed anyway
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