dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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about 6 months ago i was late for school, doing 45 in a 30 - i got gunned and pulled over. The gun said 50 mph so i was issued with a producer and a verbal warning.
This morning a court summons landed on my doorstep for the 23rd - thats like 10 days away!!!!!!! I'm pleading not guilty - not because im saying i wasnt speeding, but that i think the speed gun technology used is infallible, and the circumstances surrounding it.
To buy me some time, im asking for a lot of evidence which makes the basis of the prosecution (which if in turn cannot be gathered the case could be dismissed).
Read this letter and tell me what you think. Any tips would be really helpful as i wont be able to insure my car with points  too much moolah
Dear Sir / Madam,
In response to your recent issue of a summons regarding an alleged motoring offence on ‘Oatlands Drive, Harrogate’ dated 6/10/2006 . I would be obliged if you could supply me with answers to my questions as to correctly respond to your accusation.
· Please inform me who the operator of the equipment at the time of the alleged offence was.
· I would like to see all the current training and procedure certificates for the said officer.
· Please provide identification of actual equipment used to record the alleged offence.
· I would like to see all maintenance and calibration records for the identified equipment.
· I would like official documentation that states that all calibration procedures for the actual site have been actioned accordingly and noted by both the equipment operator and Traffic Car Driver.
· Please identify exact location of equipment used to record alleged offence.
· Please show that vehicle named, (Registration S107 GWH) was isolated in field of view and not ‘shadowed’ or blocked by any other vehicle.
· Please provide copies of actual photos of the alleged offence.
· Please provide documentation that the site used was totally suitable for this type of equipment and free from any type of contamination.
· Please provide documentation that the site used fulfils any guidelines set down in legislation, ie., the site has had eight or more injury accidents in preceding three years, the length of the site etc.
· That the 85th percentile speed was greater than the ACPO guidelines.
· I would like a copy of the force’s procedures for the use of radar.
· I would like a copy of the forces procedures for the use of laser speed trap equipment.
I would like the information as soon as possible in order for me to react correctly to the summons I have received.
Yours truly,
Daniel Ross
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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yeah, seems alright let us know what happens
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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there was something on tv about the innacuracies of these guns the other night
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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yeh in a court room, a guy got off from doing like 140 on a motorway cos when his solicitor aimed it at a wall it got it doing 10mph
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Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
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Driving to school  Do your parents know you're driving ? 
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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haha funny - im in upper sixth
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Eddie.2k
Member
Registered: 4th Dec 06
User status: Offline
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Sounds like you know what your talking about.
Come up with all that yourself or from a lawyer/solicitor?
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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no lawyers and no solictors. Police round harrogate (nearest town) always pull over done up cars cos its a nice area.
Ive been pulled about 18 times now so i know all the drills, when theyre bullshitting, when theyre not, and what can be done.
Police prosecutions need 100% evidence - otherwise its againt human rights 'innocent til proven guilty'
Im literally just asking them to give me enough evidence for me to say - shite, you got me. And thats what the magistrates will be like - but if they cant prove one thing, everything else falls outa their arse.
plus - many police officers using speed guns dont have official traning certificates, so are illegally using them to prosecute! meaning if you get caught, and they find that out, the police force gets in trouble!
fingers crossed
[Edited on 12-04-2007 by dan_c4rsa]
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Offline
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If someone robbed your house but got off on a technicality, how would you feel?
Just out of curiosity....
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Neo
Member
Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
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Thats awesome
Hope you get out of it after putting all that effort into the letter 
*letter copy and paste for future reference*
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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im not getting out on a technicality. if they gave me a fixed penalty id be arsey but wouldnt say - oooh theres a line here the tickets void.
i just think its not very good for me to say, i wasnt doing 50 but as its the police and the law im gna go get raped and lose me car  woooo
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by corb
If someone robbed your house but got off on a technicality, how would you feel?
Just out of curiosity....
Its a very good point.
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Offline
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50 or 45, would the offence not still be the same? an SP30?
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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anything up to 50 is a fixed penalty notice
as soon as it hits 50 its court summons.
sp30 is just stating the legal limit - If you want to see yourself search for PNLD codes. For example my offence is H81 bla bla bla - the pnld code system is how you get done.
[Edited on 12-04-2007 by dan_c4rsa]
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Offline
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Whats the difference between getting a summons and fixed penalty notice? The size of fine? 
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taylorboosh
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
User status: Offline
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robbing a house is different to speeding, we all speed every single 1 of us (on our test tracks of course) but how many of us would rob some 1?
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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fixed penalty notices are just standard penalty's.
3 points and 60 quid.
summons can mean anything - it just means that the speed you were 'doing' is too big to be dealt with by the side of the road, also including circumstances and age.
summons can mean disqualification, points and bigger fines. But also if you say not guilty and protest your case, you may just get a fine, or just points, or nothing.
think its a limit of a £1000 fine from summons
[Edited on 12-04-2007 by dan_c4rsa]
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Offline
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Could you not admit to doing 45?
Corsabadboy, whats the difference if everyone does it? plenty of people rob houses and get away with it on a daily basis, doesnt make it ok. If you get caught, take it on the chin and learn not to break the law in future.
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by corb
Could you not admit to doing 45?
Corsabadboy, whats the difference if everyone does it? plenty of people rob houses and get away with it on a daily basis, doesnt make it ok. If you get caught, take it on the chin and learn not to break the law in future.
no thats what's wrong with courts. If i said, i was speeding but was doing 45 - i have no evidence other than my word like i told the officer at the time.
in that case i yes would be prosecuted - but i could still get done for 50 and even be disqualified
and i agree about the taking it on the chin, i dont speed much any more (it's been 6 months since i got this) - and thats why its annoyed me - i was given no notice or anything.
and you're meant to get this letter ages before your court appearance - and its even been signed my the CPS (Crown prosecution service) in the 21st of february!!!!!!!!!
the whole system's naff if you ask me - example i reckon 30mph penaltys should be - 50 quid up to 50, 150 quid to 60 and a good kicking above that. 
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Tom J
Organiser: South Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Sep 03
Location: Bridgend
User status: Offline
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was it a handheld speed camera? did he show you the speed on the device? if so you do realise you will look stupid as these types of cameras don't take a 'picture'?
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Tom J
Organiser: South Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Sep 03
Location: Bridgend
User status: Offline
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you are asking for a lot of stuff that isn't actually necessary? Do you even know what device they used to catch you on 
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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yeh radar. and yes he did but when he did i said i didnt beleive it was true as the devices are infallible and he was happy enough to record that statement.
i dont mean photo's from the gun.
it's just evidence that they won't have.
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taylorboosh
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
User status: Offline
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i am a beliver that police time would be far better spent catching burglars and rapists then speeders, ooo wait that will never happen they dont get paid for catching a burglar
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dan_c4rsa
Member
Registered: 12th Dec 06
Location: North Yorks Drives: MK3 Seat Cupra
User status: Offline
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it's necessary to me keeping my car.
and a lot of it is necessary - no training certificates = police notmeant to be using devices
spots used to catch you - if they dont fulfil requirements the place they got you is void
copys of procedures outline what is done when someones caught - i.e if they didnt follow it its void.
ask about any points, i have my reasons for asking
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Tom J
Organiser: South Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Sep 03
Location: Bridgend
User status: Offline
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what do you want photos of then? also don't you know that there doesn't have to be a record of injuries in the area to use a handheld device?
tbh i think you are just making yourself look stupid and you will get a bigger fine/more points for trying to beat the system, you've just admitted you were speeding, it doesn't matter whether you were going 45 or 50,
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