Conway563
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Registered: 7th Jun 06
Location: Yate, Bristol
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7217238.stm
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Whittie
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Registered: 11th Aug 06
Location: North Wales Drives: BMW, Corsa & Fiat
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We're going halves.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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I doubt this will happen tbh.
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Whittie
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Registered: 11th Aug 06
Location: North Wales Drives: BMW, Corsa & Fiat
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£5k a share, is quite a lot though 
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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I would go halfs on a share
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Whittie
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Registered: 11th Aug 06
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If I could afford it I would too
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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quote:
Originally posted by Whittie
£5k a share, is quite a lot though
Thats what they were sold for when they Yanks bought us out.
Wont happen, not a chance in hell we could raise ATLEAST £500m.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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FPMSL you beat me to it I was going to make the same thread!!!
Do it Cosmo 
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RyanSxi
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Registered: 26th Jul 06
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Ask mummy and daddy to buy you it for your birthday cosmo!
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Conway563
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Location: Yate, Bristol
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
FPMSL you beat me to it I was going to make the same thread!!!
Do it Cosmo
I saw the story and immeadiately thought of Cosmo. I was half expecting it to have a story about it being spearheaded by a clown
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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If it happens we'll def buy into it, was speaking to my Dad last night and telling him to put a consortium together to buy it
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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More details will be released in a press conference later today, aswell as their website going live. Seems this could really be a possibility.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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I'm not 100% sure it's the way to go, although wouldn't mind looking into some similar case studies. Do you know how it works (operationally)??
[Edited on 31-01-2008 by Tom]
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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From what Ive seen mentioned they are looking closely at the Barca model, in which they have around 150,000 who pay a membership yearly of around $200, but obviously we'd have to initially offer a much larger amount to raise the £500m to buy the club and build the stadium.
Barca offer 20% off tickets and other incentives for joining. Every 4 yrs people run to become Chairman/President of the board of directors and members vote on which to pick. A yearly budget is formed and random members are selected to form a committee and sign off on this budget.
The guy who is running this for us is called Rogan Taylor and is a Kop season-ticket holder and director of the Football Industry Group.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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 sounds sensible enough actually.
As long as the board were sensible enough and it didn't turn stupid in terms of fans wanting input into everything....
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Cosmo
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Yeah, think it would have to be clear that you employ the chairman and thats the end of your input into the running. Obviously though the Chairman would be answerable to the fans though, so would have to stick to running it how we wanted and how they promised when elected.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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As long it didn't follow suit with real madrid with the high manager/coach turnover.
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Cosmo
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Isn’t this a pipe dream? You’ve no chance have you?
It’s no pipe dream; its do-able. Liverpool Football Club has millions of fans across the world. Most of them will have been worrying about what has been happening to our Club lately. And they’ll
be realising that life as a Liverpool fan could get much more expensive.
There may be no plans yet, but ticket prices may have to be steeply hiked in years to come to help repay debts. We've seen what's happened already to season ticket holders at Man Utd. You have to commit IN ADVANCE to buy all home Cup games – without even knowing how many games that will be! It includes all League cup; FA and Champs League home games…. Say ten in total on average. That’s an extra £400 - £500 to add to the price of your season ticket at Old Trafford.
What will happen at Liverpool FC when the debts bite (and we have seen more and more debt secured on the Club’s equity)? There is around £180m of debt secured in Kop Holdings Ltd. and no answer to the question: Who will repay it when it falls due in a few years time? Our guess is that fans will bare the brunt in the end, not just in Liverpool but all round the world as the Club ‘sweats’ every asset.
So instead of us paying off the millionaire owners’ debts, why don’t we just buy it ourselves instead? Why would anyone want to pay off someone else’s debts?
Are you really going to get 100,000 people to sign up in this short a space of time?
We took nearly 50,000 fans to Istanbul – Athens too. In reality, it cost most of us between £1,000 and £2,000 to make the trip; more if we took our partners & kids along. Liverpool fans have always turned out when the Club needed them. They find the money somehow, even at short notice. And remember, there are literally millions of us round the world who really care about LFC.
Yes, but £5,000 is a lot of money. Won’t many Liverpool fans be effectively priced out of something they’d love to take part in?
Take your point. We don’t want to see any Liverpool fan excluded. We will seek to provide opportunities for groups of fans to purchase one ‘member share’ (carrying one vote) between them, providing they can nominate one individual to represent them.
Why shouldn’t I just wait and see what happens, without putting up any money?
You could miss out badly. The list will close. Also we will propose giving the first 20,000 people to respond special staus and possibly enhanced advantages for ticket purchase. Those who commit first deserve some reward for their enthusiasm.
Modern sports clubs can’t be run like this, can they?
Why not? Many people know that Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by their fans. So are German clubs, apart from Bayer Leverkusen.
In fact, teams owned by their fans like this have won the European Cup 6 times since it became the Champions League in 1992. Even in USA, the NFL Green Bay Packers are run by a not-for-profit company; they’ve won the Superbowl 3 times despite having by far the smallest population of any NFL team.
That’s fine, but in Britain, especially if you need a new stadium, you need a sugar-daddy. That’s the reality, isn’t it?
No. Look at Arsenal. They’ve no sugar-daddy. The club costed up its plans, secured loans and convinced people to lend to them at a fixed-rate. The Banks trust the club’s finances will be well-run and that fans will continue to watch the club.
If we could show how much fans of this club care, and how they’re prepared to back their faith with hard cash, then everything changes. We don’t need a sugar daddy – we ARE the sugar daddy - because most of the money comes from us in the end anyway.
How do we get investment in the future or cash to buy players?
If we have a well run, debt free Club to start with, there will be money to buy players (how much do you think is spent servicing the Club’s debts?). Also the elected Board may wish to raise money (as any business must sometimes). At Barca, very rich individuals stand for election with promises of further investment. But it doesn’t mean they ‘own’ any part of Club.
But surely this way of running things ‘mutually’ belongs to the past?
The Co-operative group, with shops, a bank, insurance and undertakers is run like this. It’s got a turnover of £8 billion a year, and buries 1 in 4 of us! It is also the biggest farmer in the country and the biggest retail co-operative in the world. It‘s owned by over 2 million customers, all owning one share.
What if we don’t get the £500m?
Lets say we only get £100m – the equivalent of 20,000 fans signing up. At that point we would ask the 20,000 ‘members’ what they want to do. Some of us might want – as a group (Supporters' Trust) - to buy a significant portion of the club’s shares. Certainly, at that point, any individual member who wanted the money returned would be entitled to it.
Can I sell my share later on? What if I need the money back in a rush?
The simple answer to the first question is no. There will be no ordinary‘trading’ in individual shares – no profit can be made from selling them - (otherwise the Club would be permanently ‘up for sale’ – just like Man Utd was). However, if a member can find someone who does not already own a member share, then a transfer at the original price may be arranged through the elected Board.
Nobody will be asked to part with a penny until a detailed Constitution is presented in which all necessary details are made plain.
How do we know we’ve hit the target?
We will have a partner Bank where the monies will be kept until we reach the target. We will ask the two Bishops of Liverpool to act as verifiers for us – they’ll see the bank accounts, have access to all the books and be able to speak to the bank to certify that it’s all there. We will also ask the Liverpool City Council Treasurer to act as a scrutineer.
So, if we don’t make the targets and we all take our money back, what about the interest the money has earned?
We’ll donate it to a Charity of your choice, less any deductions for verifiable expenses incurred in running the ‘Share Liverpool FC’ operation (website server charges; legal costs to draw
up a Constitution etc.).
What will we get to vote on?
Members will elect the Board of Directors for Liverpool FC, for a term to be decided by you. (Barcelona elect their President every four years.) After an Election, just like the Government, the Board will have executive control of the Club, but they may want an elected ‘Fans’ Council’ to advise them. The Board will know that – in a few years time - they will be judged on their performance
by the owners – YOU.
Will we get a vote on the team or the manager?
No. The elected Board has executive responsibility for running the Club.
Will members be guaranteed a ticket if they want one?
With 100,000 members? You’re kidding!
Has anyone ever done this in UK before?
No, though there have been many formations of ‘Supporters' Trusts’ at professional clubs in the past decade– and three Football League Clubs are run by a majority shareholder Supporters' Trust. Liverpool would be the pioneers in completing a ‘members’ buy-out.
What we propose would probably start a ‘revolution’ in Club ownership structures in UK. But then, Liverpool fans have often been at the vanguard of changing the culture of football.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Ebbsfleet United have done it 
I can't see it working personally. Its a big ask of the fans to get the cash. You may have a chance of buying it through the fans, but I think a new stadium would be asking too much.
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Cosmo
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If we can get the club bought then funding the stadium in a similar way to Arsenal wouldnt be a problem - as the extra match day revenue and sponsorship would easily cover the yearly costs of a stadium.
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Marc
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Do you honestly think that 100000 fans are going to part with £5k though?
Are you?
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Do you honestly think that 100000 fans are going to part with £5k though?
Are you?
Hmmm....no in its current form I dont see 100,000 people taking part.
IMO it needs to firstly allow people to buy more than one 'share', maybe a max of 10. As this would encourage those few who can do so to invest more than the 5k, and it wouldnt really give them any extra power as 10 votes out of 100,000 is nothing.
Secondly I think they need to offer incentives to invest. As finding 100,000 who will basically throw away (as thats what it is as offer no return) for the love of the team wont be easy. Things such as discount of tickets and merchandise, entry into competitions to win things such as signed shirts, tickets to games, hotel and travel to European games, chances to meet the players, etc.
And lastly they need to offer a cheaper type of investment too. Barca offer yearly membership for around £100-150, and this gives you a voting right along with a few other perks - it also means a regular income for the club too.
Will I invest?! Probably if it goes ahead I will, but I still think the general idea needs to tweaking.
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strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
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I really, really cannot see Liverpool fans parting with 5k to have no input in anything other than voting. It is effectively pissing 5k up the wall
I also cant see many people wanting to buy 10 (50k) and also have no say in matters.
I can only see something like that working as a proper PLC, listed on the stock exchange etc
TBH it seem's like a pipedream to me, and i cannot even see the Yanks wanting to sell up
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
I really, really cannot see Liverpool fans parting with 5k to have no input in anything other than voting. It is effectively pissing 5k up the wall
I also cant see many people wanting to buy 10 (50k) and also have no say in matters.
I can only see something like that working as a proper PLC, listed on the stock exchange etc
TBH it seem's like a pipedream to me, and i cannot even see the Yanks wanting to sell up
Barcelona are owned in a similar way. As are the Co-op who turnover over £8bn a year.
Its a big big ask, and Im not sure it'll happen, but its a possibility.
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strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
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Comparison's with co-op are useless, as they have many more ways of making money
Comparison with Barca yes, but i just think if Liverpool fans spent 5k to buy one share, they would want much more than just what is being offered, a vote
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