strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
Location: Wigan Drives:Integra DC5
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I have done a search but it's fucking useless when limited to just one page
So i need peoples advice, i have just started back at the gym, and my diet is pretty good now i've decided to watch what i eat, but i only get 3 meals a day
I would like to have snacks in between both meals but i don't get time, so was looking at protein shakes/bars
I am new to this so have no idea what is the best to buy from myprotein.co.uk, so i was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of which to buy
My current goals are to lose alot of body fat, atm i am concentrating on that because i want to be in shape before i start to concentrate on muscle building
Strick
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Minty_Fresh
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Registered: 1st May 08
Location: westmidlands
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look at a decent fat stripper?
la muscle do a decent fat stripper, around £30 for a month supply, personally been tested by my step dad and it works as hes after loosing fat but keeping muscle..
also as you said myprotein are decent 
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jaffa
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Registered: 27th Mar 00
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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if ordering from myprotein use code MP23677 for 5% off
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MarkM
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Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
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Have some Beef jerky for in between meals...
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jaffa
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Registered: 27th Mar 00
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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also type www.bulkpowders.co.uk in the price matcher box and they will do some price match deals.
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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I wouldn't bother for now, just concentrate on getting a sweat on at teh gym, try some classes.
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corsa_godfather
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Registered: 6th May 03
Location: Greenock,Scotland
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easier to build musle then lose fat,instead of doing it the other way.
but if u want to lose fat do lots of cardio!and obviously a good diet check menshealth.co.uk for tips
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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3 meals a day isnt enough, you need 6 - no excuses.
Protein powders are ok for suppliments, but not as multiple meal replacements throughout the day.
Same advice as always, dont mix fats and carbs together in a meal (burger and chips, pizza etc) are prime examples. your first 2 meals of the day should be protein and carbs but seeing as fat stripping is a goal of yours you need to limit your carb intake somewhat. Meal one and 2 should be protein and carb rich. meals 3 should be protein and either a fruit or vegetable non complex carb mix meal 4 should be carb and protein rich. meals 5 and 6 should be carb free with protein and essential fats incorporated. Aim for 150-200g of protein a day and a total of 3000 - 3500 calories a day to keep the fat burning.
And to whoever said its easier to build muscle than lose fat and you ned to do lots of cardio to loose weight they are wrong. Its proven that you burn more calories doing resistance (weight) training than you do when your doing cardio. your best bet is to train harder, rest times of no more than 60 seconds between sets, and train for hypertrophy so do 4 sets of 12 reps on a lighter weight. do this for 4 weeks then move onto heavy lifts doing 5 sets of 5 reps using heavy weight. and cycle it like this.
ITs hard to explain how much science goes behind body conditioning, but just follow a good eating and trainign plan and you will look much better than the everage joe, but dont expect to be like arnie as that takes years of dedication and perfection.
[Edited on 10-02-2009 by DizzyRebel]
[Edited on 10-02-2009 by DizzyRebel]
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Minty_Fresh
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Registered: 1st May 08
Location: westmidlands
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you dont need 6 meals at all, unless your over 200lb+
you could have 3/4 'meals' a day, and then a snack and a protein shake twice a day, 100% a shake on the post workout meal (straight after you workout, and a banana)
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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Erm what do you know about nutrition? can you tell me about macronutrients, the thermic effect of food, how calorific surplus works etc?
You NEED 6 meals a day, albeit they dont have to be large (morning meals should be larger and night meals should be smaller) if you intend to grow, you need to eat every 2-3 hours to stop your metabolism going catabolic. Lots of people train well enough but probably 80% of those people under eat - you dont understand that to get big you need to eat big.
You need to understand the science behind eating before giving people your half assed approach to diets.
If you want to get bigger (and that means lean muscle, not just weight), then you have to eat more calories than you expend. What a revelation, right? You'd think that was common knowledge, but one of the most common mistakes people make when trying to gain weight is consuming an inconsistent number of calories. They claim to eat "all of the time," but their fast metabolism somehow keeps them from gaining any weight.
Checking through many of their food intake records, you can see that they eat 4,500 calories one day and 1,500 the next. When you average it out over a week, it's obvious that they're just consuming enough calories to maintain their current weight.
There are many ways to calculate how many calories you need each day. A simple method is to multiply your weight in pounds by 16. So a 200-pound guy would need:
16 x 200 = 3,200 calories per day
If he's trying to gain weight, add an additional 20% to the above calculation:
3,200 calories x 0.20 = 640 more calories per day
Adding 3,200 and 640 tells you how many calories (3,840) this guy should eat per day to gain weight. (Of course, your activity level determines whether these numbers need to be adjusted up or down.) You should strive to gain half a pound to one pound each week — more than that, and you're putting on too much fat weight, assuming your not on gear.
And thats just the simple way - if your really interested in how to properly calculate exactly how many calories you need to build muscle then i have another article i can post.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
3 meals a day isnt enough, you need 6 - no excuses.
PMSL.
He hasn't told you his height, weight or his current eating plan, let alone what he's trying to achieve yet you're telling him he should be eating like some pumped up machine.
Eating throughout the day is a good idea though as it keeps your metabolism going.
I'd suggest reading up and looking at a few height and weight charts for somebody who wants to build muscle, they usually tell you how much you should be eating a day - protein and calorie intake.
Should you want to build up then you'll find you will need to up your protein intake a bit more, you can't realistically do this with food so you might want to look in to protein shakes.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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Again, what do you know about nutrition... do you study it or are you just someone who goes to the gym, speaks to a few big lads and buys mens health mag?
Height and weight charts are bullshit, heres the proper way to calculate EXACTLY what your body needs to grow. It was written by a guy whos work i study called John M Berardi, who is a scientist and PhD candidate in the area of Exercise and Nutritional Biochemistry at the University of Western Ontario, Canada. He also serves as a nutrition and training consultant to numerous athletes including US Olympic and NCAA track and field athletes, world-class endurance athletes, collegiate and professional football players, strength competitors, and bodybuilders.
Pop Quiz, Hotshot
Pretend you're back in high school and mean ol' Mr. Berardi has just passed out a pop quiz. Luckily, there's only one question:
Which of the following statements is true?
A) Most people succeed in training well enough to grow, but they fail in eating well enough to grow.
B) Most people eat well enough to grow, but they don't train well enough to grow.
Pencils down. Okay, which is it? If you said "A," give yourself a gold star. But don't feel too badly if you chose "B." To an extent, both answers are correct. Most people probably train and eat incorrectly! But if I had to pick one answer that was more true than the other, I'd say "A" would be the best choice. If you're not growing, it's probably your diet, not your training, that's holding you back.
With this article I'm throwing down the gauntlet. This is your wake up call if you've ever made any of the following statements:
"I eat a lot of food. In fact, it feels like I'm eating all day! But I just can't get any bigger."
"I can't gain a pound of muscle. My parents are both skinny, so it must be genetic."
"I've always had a fast metabolism. That's why I can stay lean but can't get any bigger."
"I'm scared to go on a bulking diet because I don't want to lose my abs."
"I've tried mass-building diets before and put on a little muscle, but most of the weight I gained was fat."
Sound familiar? Then this article is for you, toothpick legs.
What You're Doing Wrong
Now you may be asking, "If I'm not eating well enough to grow, Mr. Smartypants, what am I doing wrong?" In my opinion, there are three major things that most people do incorrectly when trying to gain muscle mass:
1) They don't understand energy balance (calories in vs. calories out).
2) They don't eat the right foods at the right times (poor meal combinations).
3) They don't learn their physiological responses to nutrients (insulin sensitivity, carb, and fat tolerance).
Below I'll describe practical ways to fine tune all three. By the end of this series, you should know how much food you need to grow, what combinations of foods you should eat and when you should eat them, and how to figure out your own personal, individualized macronutrient needs.
Energy Balance: You might be surprised!
So what is energy balance? Here's the simple equation:
Energy Balance = Energy Intake - Energy Expenditure
Energy intake is made up of what you eat and drink. Energy expenditure is made up of several factors including resting metabolic rate (RMR), calorie cost of activity, thermic effect of food (TEF), and adaptive thermogenesis (the X factor). The balance of intake and expenditure is an important factor in weight gain or loss. If you have a positive energy balance (intake exceeds expenditure), you gain weight. A negative energy balance (intake is less than expenditure) dictates that you'll lose weight. Simple enough.
Remember, however, that energy balance is only one factor in getting massive (or getting lean for that matter). And although it's the most basic and simplest part of understanding your needs for growth, ironically, most people totally screw it up! So let me be your metabolic guide. Below I'll provide some practical ways to navigate through the harsh jungle of energy balance equations so that you'll emerge ready to tackle the challenge of muscle growth. Pick up your pencils again, class. Better yet, grab a calculator!
Step #1: Resting Metabolic Rate
Resting metabolic rate (RMR) is the energy it costs the body to basically keep alive. This doesn't include the costs of getting your butt out of bed and moving around; those numbers are calculated in later. Although you might not guess it, about 50 to 70 percent of your entire day's calorie expenditure is a result of the RMR. So, let's figure out your RMR right now.
Determining RMR:
To start off with, you need to take your body weight in pounds and convert it to kilograms. (International readers, please bear with us silly non-metric Americans for a moment.) This is a simple conversion. Just divide your body weight by 2.2.
Next you take your percent of fat and multiply it by your body weight (which is now in kilograms). This will give you your fat mass (FM) in kilograms. Next simply subtract this number from your total weight in kilograms and you'll have your fat free mass (FFM) in kilograms.
Before we go on, why don't we try this out on me. Since I'm an athlete with a body weight of 200lbs at 5% body fat, I'd take my total body mass and divide it by 2.2:
Total body mass in kilograms = 200lbs / 2.2 = 91 kg
Next I'd multiply this kilogram number (91 kg) by my percent of body fat. Remember, percents are really decimals so 5% equals 0.05, 12% bodyfat will be .12 etc.
Fat Mass = 91kg x 0.05 = 4.55kg FM
Next I subtract this fat mass number (4.55 kg) from my total body mass (91kg):
Fat Free Mass = 91kg - 4.55kg = 86.45kg
Therefore my fat free mass is 86.45 kilograms. From that I can determine my RMR. The formula for RMR is as follows:
Resting Metabolic Rate for Athletes (in calories per day) = 500 + 22 x fat free mass (in kilograms).
Again, for me, I'd multiply 22 times my fat free mass and add 500 to that number as shown below:
RMR= 22 x 86.45 + 500 = 2402
Therefore my resting metabolic rate is about 2400 calories per day. Everyone have their RMR figured out? Good, let's move on.
Step #2: Cost of Activity
The Cost of Activity represents how many calories are required to move your butt around during the day. This includes the cost of walking out to your car, scraping the ice off the damn thing, driving to work, pinching the secretary's ass, going to lunch with the boys, and of course, training after work. These factors make up about 20 to 40% of your daily caloric intake based on your activity level. So let's figure out your costs of activity. I'll use myself as an example again.
Determining Activity Costs:
Cost of Daily Activity is equal to the RMR you calculated above multiplied by an activity factor that fits your daily routine. I've listed some common activity factors below:
Activity Factors:
1.2-1.3 for Very Light (bed rest)
1.5-1.6 for Light (office work/watching TV)
1.6-1.7 for Moderate (some activity during day)
1.9-2.1 for Heavy (labor type work)
Note: Don't consider your daily workout when choosing a number. We'll do that later.
With this information we can get back to determining my calorie needs. Since I work at a university, most of my day is pretty sedentary. Even though I run back and forth between the lab and classes, I've selected 1.6 as my activity factor. Therefore the amount of calories it takes to breathe and move around during the day is about 3800 calories as shown below:
RMR x Activity Factor = 2400 calories x 1.6 = 3800 calories
Costs of Exercise Activity:
Next, we need to determine how many calories your exercise activity burns so that we can factor this into the totals. Exercise activity can be calculated simply by multiplying your total body mass in kilograms (as calculated above) by the duration of your exercise (in hours). Then you'd multiply that number by the MET value of exercise as listed below. (MET or metabolic equivalent, is simply a way of expressing the rate of energy expenditure from a given physical activity.)
MET values for common activities:
high impact aerobics? 7
low impact aerobics? 5
high intensity cycling? 12
low intensity cycling? 3
high intensity walking - 6.5
low intensity walking - 2.5
high intensity running? 18
low intensity running? 7
circuit-type training? 8
intense free weight lifting? 6
moderate machine training? 3
So here's the formula:
Cost of Exercise Activity = Body Mass (in kg) x Duration (in hours) x MET value
And here's how I calculate it for myself:
Exercise Expenditure for weights = 6 METS X 91kg x 1.5 hours = 819 calories
Exercise Expenditure for cardio = 3 METS X 91 kg x .5 hours = 137 calories
Add these two together and I burn 956 total calories during one of my training sessions.
Since my training includes about 90 minutes of intense free weight training and 30 minutes of low intensity bicycling (four times per week), my exercise energy expenditure might be as high as 1000 calories per training day!
The next step is to add this exercise number to the number you generated when multiplying your RMR by your activity factor (3800 calories per day in my case).
So 3800 calories + about 1000 calories = a whopping 4800 calories per day! And we're not done yet! (Note: I rounded 956 up to 1000 for the sake of simplicity. If you're a thin guy trying to gain muscle, it's better to round up anyway than to round down.)
Step #3: Thermic Effect of Food
TEF is the amount of calories that it takes your body to digest, absorb, and metabolize your ingested food intake. This makes up about 5 to 15% of your total daily calorie expenditure. Since the metabolic rate is elevated via this mechanism 10 to 15% for one to four hours after a meal, the more meals you eat per day, the faster your metabolic rate will be. This is a good thing, though. It's far better to keep the metabolism high and eat above that level, than to allow the metabolism to slow down by eating infrequently. Protein tends to increase TEF to a rate double that of carbs and almost triple that of fats so that's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan of protein meals.
Determining the Thermic Effect of Food:
To determine the TEF, you need to multiply your original RMR value (2400 in my case) by 0.10 for a moderate protein diet or 0.15 for a high protein diet. So this is what the formula looks like:
TEF = RMR x 0.10 for moderate protein diet (1 gram per pound of bodyweight)
TEF = RMR x 0.15 for high protein diet (more than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight)
Since I eat a very high protein diet (about 350 to 400 grams per day), I use the 0.15 factor and my TEF is about 360 calories per day as displayed by the calculation below:
Thermic Effect of Food = 2400 calories x 0.15 = 360 calories per day
Now add that to your calorie total.
Step #4: Adaptive Thermogenesis
I like to call Adaptive Thermogenesis the "X factor" because we just aren't sure how much it can contribute to daily caloric needs. Some have predicted that it can either increase daily needs by 10% or even decrease daily needs by 10%. Because it's still a mystery, we typically don't factor it into the equation.
Just for interest's sake, one factor included in the "X factor" is unconscious or spontaneous activity. Some people, when overfed, get hyper and increase their spontaneous activity and even have been known to be "fidgety." Others just get sleepy when overfed — obviously the fidgeters will be burning more calories that the sleepy ones.
Other factors include hormone responses to feeding, training, and drugs, hormone sensitivity (insulin, thyroid, etc), stress (dramatically increases metabolic rate) or temperature induced metabolic changes (cold weather induces increased metabolic activity and heat production).
With all that said, you don't need to do any math on this part or fiddle with your calorie total. This is just something to keep in mind.
Step #5: Putting it all together
Okay, so how many damn calories do you need to consume each and every day? Well, adding up RMR plus activity factor (3800 calories in my case), cost of weight training (819 calories), cost of cardio (137 calories), and TEF (360 calories), we get a grand total of about 5116 calories! (Remember, that's just my total. You'll get a different number.)
Now that's a lot of food! And I must eat this each and every day when I want to gain weight. Are you surprised at how many calories I need? Most people are. So the next time you complain that you're "eating all day and can't gain a pound" you'd better realistically evaluate how much you're really eating. If you're not gaining a pound, then you're falling short on calories.
The Secret is in the Surplus!
So at this point, the keen readers that aren't afraid of massive eating might ask the question, "Since this is technically just your maintenance level, how can you get bigger by eating this amount? Wouldn't you need more?" The answer is simple. Since I train only four days per week this diet would meet my needs on those four days. But on my three off days per week I'd be in positive calorie balance by about 1,000 calories per day! (That extra thousand calories isn't being used when training, in other words.) This adds up to a surplus of 3,000 calories per week. And this is where the growth happens!
I especially like this "staggered model" because rather than trying to stagger your calorie intake on a daily basis by eating different amounts of food on different days, I let my training cycle my calories for me. This way I can eat the same thing every day while preventing my body from adapting to that habitual level of intake. Just like we vary our training to prevent adaptation, prevention of dietary adaptation is one of the secrets to changing your body composition.
At this point, I want to stop and give you a week to think about your energy needs. Go do the math if you haven't already, figure out how many calories you need, and take some time to compose yourself. After you've realized that you've been grossly under-eating, start thinking about ways to add calories to your diet.
Real Meals
Don't you hate it when you read a diet article only to find yourself asking, "So what exactly do I eat anyway?" Well, here are some examples of typical meals to consume when following this program:
Protein plus carb meals (minimal fat — <5g)
2 scoops of protein powder mixed in with 1 serving of oatmeal
1 sliced banana
1 cup of regular or lactose free skim milk
1 serving Grow!
1 can tuna fish
1 cup of regular or lactose free skim milk
2 pieces of whole grain bread
Vegetables
8 egg whites
1 scoop of protein in 1 serving of oatmeal
1 slice of whole grain bread
1 piece of fat free cheese
Vegetables
2 cups of regular or lactose free skim milk
1 scoop protein
2 pieces of fruit
Here's a list of good carbs and protein for the protein plus carbohydrate meals:
Carbs: apples, oranges, oatmeal, all bran cereals, vegetables, mueslix, white pasta, flax bread, yams
Protein: chicken, whey, casein, turkey, egg whites, skim milk, tuna, cottage cheese
Protein plus fat meals (minimal carbs — <10g)
1 can salmon
1 scoop protein powder in water
Vegetables
1 tablespoon of concentrated fish oils
8-12 oz lean beef
Fat free cheese
1 tablespoon of olive oil
Vegetables
1 can tuna fish
1 scoop protein powder
Vegetables
1 tablespoon of concentrated fish oils
2 scoops protein powder in water
1 tablespoon flax oil
Here's a list of good fats and proteins for the protein plus fat meals:
Fats: Concentrated fish oils (PUFA-omega 3), flaxseed oil (PUFA-omega 3 and 6), olive oil (MUFA), canola oil (MUFA and PUFA), fat from nuts (MUFA and PUFA), fat from beef and eggs, animal fat (SFA)
Proteins: beef, salmon, whey, casein, turkey, whole eggs, pork
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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All you're doing is pasting from the internet.
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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Some people really shouldn't be allowed to give advice on nutrients and changing your physique as it can wreck a persons health and their functions.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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That last article was one of his basic ones he writes for an internet blog - i pasted it for you to read and help understand nutrition a bit better, its aimed at beginners such as yourself in the world of sports nutrition. I didnt claim to write that, you should read it and take advice... you might learn something.
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Minty_Fresh
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Registered: 1st May 08
Location: westmidlands
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stop copying and pasting stuff off sites...
you dont need to eat that amount, like i said not if your under 200lbs lol..
[Edited on 10-02-2009 by mk4_boy]
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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I copy and pasted the last article for you to read so you can do the calculations and determine exactly how many calories you need as an individual - what the fuck is wrong with that?
There is no set diet for under 200lb and over 200lb people, and FYI people who are small are the ones who need to change their diet and eat more to grow. Just read the damn article and quit your jibber jabber - unless you know more than a nutritional scientist about what your body needs of course!
You should still eat 6 meals a day, but dpending on how many calories berardi's calculator tells you you need to eat will influence what foods your going to eat at those meals.
If you dont do the calorie counter and dont take your diet seriously, you will just plateu and be stuck at your current weight for good and thats a fact.
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Brabus
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Registered: 25th Oct 07
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DizzyRebel, your absolutely right. I dont claim to be an expert but its common knowledge that no matter if you weigh 100lbs or 200lbs you still need to eat 6 meals a day minimum. If you only eat 3 meals a day that must mean a 4-5hour gap between each, providing your eating the right things your body will switch to catabolic mode after 3hours + and start eating away at fat and muscle for energy. Is it any wonder these people moan about never putting any size on.
As for protein shakes, i use 100% On whey, 72 Servings a container, 24g's protien, only 120ish cals per serving and cheap at 35 squid.
[Edited on 10-02-2009 by Brabus]
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strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
Location: Wigan Drives:Integra DC5
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FAO Dizzy Rascals brother
I am trying to lose weight and get in shape that way, i understand you need to eat 5-6 times a day, but 4000 calories a day for someone who is looking to lose about a stone?
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Brabus
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Registered: 25th Oct 07
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He never said you need to eat 4000 calories a day, he used an example that you can use to determine how many calories you need to eat.
Use the calculation above with your body weight then -20% from the amount in order to loose 1/2-1lb a week, anymore and you will be loosing muscle(unless your not bothered about that). Cardio is also a good idea 2-3 times a week for 15 mins, HIT would be ideal.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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So your trying to cut but preserve muscle. Basically you need to be training within a calorific deficit.
to do this, multiply your body weight in lbs by 16 to get your maitenance calorie intake, then multiply it again by 0.20 and subtract that number from your maintenance calorie intake and round it down to the nearest 100.
You should then remove from your diet mainly carbohydrate calories to reduce your daily calorie intake. limit your starchy complex carbohydrate intake to breakfast and post training meals. the only other carbs you should eat are simple ones such as fruit and veg to accompany meals during the day. starchy carbs such as bread, pasta, rice and potatoes are only allowed at breakfast and a small amount post training.
As far as your training goes, you need to train for hypertrophy - to do this you need to do lighter weights but for higher repetitions, 4 sets of 12-14 reps on a single exercise with no more than 45-60 seconds rest between sets for an hour 4 times a week should ensure your burning some gut.
then you need to do some HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) to further shred the fat stored within you. This should be done for no more than 15 minutes a day and done 4-5 times a week. HIIT is basically varying the pace over short bursts of time during the workout. ie sprint like mad for 30 seconds, jog for 60 seconds, sprint for 45 seconds, jog for 30 seconds... keep your body guessing on the pace and it will hammer your fat stores without sending your body catabolic like regular cardio does.
Continue to do this for 8 weeks, then for 4 weeks change your diet. up your calorie intake to .10 above your maintenance intake by adding more protein and more carb calories (you will need to adjust this again as you will have burned some considerable pounds in the past 8 weeks) Change your training routine to doing 5 sets of 5 reps of a heavy weight and cut your HIIT times down to 10 minutes per session.
Then go back to the first period again and continue the cycle untill you burn away the desired amount of fat you wish. Then its time to step up the weight, up the calorie intake and get massive.
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strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
Location: Wigan Drives:Integra DC5
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Thanks for that, could you recommend a decent whey protein that will help me get the 5-6 meals a day covered
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-powders/protein-powders/impact-whey-isolate/
?
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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I dont use my protein, i buy protein from america from a firm called biotest but its expensive. for someone like you id recommend PHD pharma whey. But any protein you buy should be made from whey isolate, with no added shit. id also reccomend you buy a miscellar casein protein powder to have before bed.
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strick206
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Registered: 12th Apr 07
Location: Wigan Drives:Integra DC5
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So Whey Isolate for use with breakfast and post workout?
and Miscellar Casein for before bed?
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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Dizyrebel, you are just overloading him with info to be fair. It's all well and good knowing the stuff, but what you have to remember is not to get entrenched with it, its not like you are dealing with an elite athlete. Stuff like not mixing carbs with fats or whatever, that is totally the wrong level for someone just wanting to get in shape.
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