kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
Hi... so recently got my Punto GT3. Just posting on here as Puntosports seem to have gone quiet on me!? 
Anyway. When I posted up pics of how my boost controller was set up...
I was told that it's not right. That I don't need the bleed valve at all, and to basically replace that with the boost controller (so that both the actuator and turbo pipes are going directly into it) strangely one person didn't agree, but I went with the majority.
Anyway, it hasn't worked. And has made the car slower and more sluggish, even turning the controller more towards + than it was when it was previously set up.
What's your take on the matter, am I better off just turning it back to how it was? Certainly felt better that way!
[Edited on 09-07-2009 by kz]
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
theyre both the same thing tbh.
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
But the way it was before vents to the atmosphere?
|
andyc1234
Member
Registered: 7th Nov 06
Location: Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
its right the way it was
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
Puntosports playing a joke on a n00b 
|
ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
You really don't want to use a bleed valve to up the boost. All you're doing is upping the boost without upping the fueling too. Detonation.
|
Jenko_Sport
Member
Registered: 25th May 06
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
User status: Offline
|
Bang 
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ed
You really don't want to use a bleed valve to up the boost. All you're doing is upping the boost without upping the fueling too. Detonation.
Right okay, conflicting opinions again lol. So I'm better off the way I've changed it too, without the bleed valve?
|
Kurt
Member
Registered: 23rd Oct 05
Location: Hi
User status: Offline
|
i've never understood why Fiat owners are wankers.. on the forums they all seem to be right arsey twats
|
stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kurt
i've never understood why Fiat owners are wankers.. on the forums they all seem to be right arsey twats
I've noticed that also 
kz, I'm no expert on the GT but I owned one a few years back and have just recently bought another.
My old GT had a bleed valve on it with no extra fuelling or control and I killed it as tempting as it is to leave it on and whack up the boost for "free" performance, I would 100% say take it off.
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
Lets start a propper Fiat Forum Kurt
|
stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
|
www.fiatsport.co.uk ? 
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by stubs
quote:
Originally posted by Kurt
i've never understood why Fiat owners are wankers.. on the forums they all seem to be right arsey twats
I've noticed that also
kz, I'm no expert on the GT but I owned one a few years back and have just recently bought another.
My old GT had a bleed valve on it with no extra fuelling or control and I killed it as tempting as it is to leave it on and whack up the boost for "free" performance, I would 100% say take it off.
Okay mate cheers it's just it feels slower and the ride is a bit lumpy since I've taken it off 
I have a choice between that or live fast, die young it seems!
|
stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
|
Are you running the standard "pierburg valve" or has that been removed?
|
crazybrightman
Member
Registered: 30th Mar 09
Location: leicestershire
User status: Offline
|
the bleed valve goes between a positive pressure source (ie inletmanifold) and the wastegate actuator.
with the valve fully open you should get base boost on most cars around 7psi. winding the vent open on the valve vents some pressure off to atmosphere meaning the actuator opens later and gives you mosre boost pressure.
how ever this is basicaly a leak and means the turbo spools slower so they fit a pressure valve in line before the adjuster to stop air leaking out. then when the pressure reaches a greater level than the spring inside it pops open and the boost pressure reachers the adjuster valve and actuator.
the problem is as mentioned if you just keep turning the valve the boost pressure will keep rising but unless the fueling and ignition is mayched it will run deangerously lean and melt something.
best not to fiddle until you find out what the engines limits are.
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by stubs
Are you running the standard "pierburg valve" or has that been removed?
What is this, the original one that only lets the car run @ 0.8bar? Isn't that what the controller gets rid of?
quote:
Originally posted by crazybrightman
the bleed valve goes between a positive pressure source (ie inletmanifold) and the wastegate actuator.
with the valve fully open you should get base boost on most cars around 7psi. winding the vent open on the valve vents some pressure off to atmosphere meaning the actuator opens later and gives you mosre boost pressure.
how ever this is basicaly a leak and means the turbo spools slower so they fit a pressure valve in line before the adjuster to stop air leaking out. then when the pressure reaches a greater level than the spring inside it pops open and the boost pressure reachers the adjuster valve and actuator.
the problem is as mentioned if you just keep turning the valve the boost pressure will keep rising but unless the fueling and ignition is mayched it will run deangerously lean and melt something.
best not to fiddle until you find out what the engines limits are.
Thanks. Over my head a bit but I'll re-read it a few times  okay so if I put it back to way I bought it for now... how would I go about increasing the fueling / ignition, possible?
|
ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by kz
quote:
Originally posted by ed
You really don't want to use a bleed valve to up the boost. All you're doing is upping the boost without upping the fueling too. Detonation.
Right okay, conflicting opinions again lol. So I'm better off the way I've changed it too, without the bleed valve?
The best way is to not have it there at all. You need to have the right amount of fuel, seeing as a bleed valve can only control boost it wont work. Sure, the lambda sensor will tell the ECU it's running lean and try to adjust, but it isn't the right way of doing things.
|
ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
To increase the fuel you could use an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and set it up using a wideband lambda sensor which will help you get the fueling correct. You're better off getting a re-map though...
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ed
quote:
Originally posted by kz
quote:
Originally posted by ed
You really don't want to use a bleed valve to up the boost. All you're doing is upping the boost without upping the fueling too. Detonation.
Right okay, conflicting opinions again lol. So I'm better off the way I've changed it too, without the bleed valve?
The best way is to not have it there at all. You need to have the right amount of fuel, seeing as a bleed valve can only control boost it wont work. Sure, the lambda sensor will tell the ECU it's running lean and try to adjust, but it isn't the right way of doing things.
Okay, just to clarify though, are you saying I'm better off without the bleed valve... or better off without all of it? i.e. including the boost controller?
|
JM_16v
Member
Registered: 17th Oct 05
Location: Essex Drives: GLC63S
User status: Offline
|
without it all, running standard boost. if you increase all this boost with no compinsation for fuel its very very dangerous for your car, my advice would be to get one of the Seb chips so it can take the upped boost
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
It's got a Seb2 chip 
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ed
You really don't want to use a bleed valve to up the boost. All you're doing is upping the boost without upping the fueling too. Detonation.
The ECU takes care of the fueling, hence the MAP sensor 
The problem with bleed valves is they are inconsistant because they rely on spring tension, the tension of a spring will be different when its cold to when its hot and it will behave slightly differently every time it opens and closes causing boost spikes etc.
Get a proper solenoid boost contoller, you are asking for a dead engine with a bleed valve.
[Edited on 11-07-2009 by DaveyLC]
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
Okay so I put it back the way it was and wound the controller up exactly half way, and it's feeling much better, more pull, and is hitting around 12PSI atm. Think I'll keep increasing it but a couple of clicks until I hit 16PSI!
|
Siberia
Member
Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
User status: Offline
|
a bleed valve with a ball and spring is fine to use....
you need to find out how much boost is safe to runn on the fiat standard map... 16psi sounds like alot of boost...
|
kz
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 02
Location: Southend, Essex Drives: Mini Cooper S
User status: Offline
|
Have been told with my setup it can run 14-16 easily.
I take it the only way to tell how much you're running is to put your foot down as much as possible and see how far the needle goes up right  I'm only guessing as have never been shown the correct way to determine lol. Strangely enough it seems to hit 12 on 3rd and 4th, but doesn't quite up there in 2nd.
|
