Gregor
Member
Registered: 28th Nov 03
Location: Paisley, Renfrewshire
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In need of advice over a wall to be knocked down 
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AndyKent
Member
Registered: 3rd Sep 05
User status: Offline
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Training to be one 
Whats the problem?
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Mad Moe
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Registered: 14th Jun 01
Location: Northumberland
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Quanitity Surveyor here if you need any advice mate
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Gregor
Member
Registered: 28th Nov 03
Location: Paisley, Renfrewshire
User status: Offline
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Basically I have a kitchen to fit , and the customer has asked if a wall underneath the stairs , in the kitchen could be knocked down. I have done a very sketchy drawing in paint , below 
As you can hopefully see , the blue lines are the joists , running from the front of the house to the back. The red lines in the kitchen are the two walls that have to be knocked down (obviously only the two that come into the kitchen) The wall nearest the back door has an opening/door frame. The only tell tale sign that this wall could be load bearing is that the door frame is of steel/metal construction.
The problem is that at present I cannot tell for sure if the wall is load bearing or not.
The photo below is a hatch i cut in the ceiling to see if the joists were resting on the wall with the door frame.
As you can see, the joists rest on the wall then stop at a trimmer joist/possibly dwangs.
I think its a load bearer , for the fact its right under the stairs and the door frame is metal. The reason I am unsure is that the customer's neighbours have taken the same walls down with no problem and no requirement for steel beams being put in.
Cananyone shed some light ?
Cheers
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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So the wall in question is the horizontal red line in the in the middle of the kitchen right?
Based only upon what you've said I would have said its loadbearing as its the only place the shorter joists have anywhere to bear onto something.
Did the neighbour have someone look at it before they had their removed, or just do it anyway? I'd reckon on the latter being more likely and they just smashed it out without thinking.
The floor above would probably be ok without the supporting wall assuming that its just a landing above and you're not likely to have much weight on that section. Wouldn't risk it though if it were me
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smcGSI16V
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Registered: 26th May 03
Location: Farnborough Drives: Thurlby 888 CDTi No.98
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Some older older style houses came with with metal door frames with the hinges being part of them. And it is not a definitive wY of telling a load bearing from another.
It all depends on how the stairs are running aswell.
On your drawing above I would conclude that the wall in the middle running left to right is load bearing.
If the cupboard door is opening into the kitchen and the little square in the kitchen is the cupboard then I would say they can be removed(dependng on the stairs and how they run.
Best bet woul be to remove a small slither/section of the ceiling for the whole olength of the cupboard(not just a small section) so that you can see and asses what is going on up there with relAtio to exactly where andhow the joist sit(do they join) and also do the stairs sit on said wall and rely on the wall for support:
[Edited on 29-09-2009 by smcGSI16V]
[Edited on 29-09-2009 by smcGSI16V]
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Gregor
Member
Registered: 28th Nov 03
Location: Paisley, Renfrewshire
User status: Offline
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The cupboard door is on the red line wall directly opposite the back wall of the house. I forgot to put this in the masterpiece above.
The whole ceiling is coming down anyway, but it would be good to know just now just how I'm placed with the wall. The metal door frame does have built in hinges but I can't get my head around why exactly it would be there.
Also, the staircase runs above the cupboard, meaning the inside of the cupboard would have a sloping ceiling.
I have no idea whether or not the neighbours took advice from a surveyor.
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smcGSI16V
Member
Registered: 26th May 03
Location: Farnborough Drives: Thurlby 888 CDTi No.98
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Generally the metal frames were used as a quick and easy and cheap way of doing doors with a minmum amount of labour involved in fitting them.
I see it quite alot wher people have removed larder cuboards under stairs in a kitchen, and generally in these situations the stairs rely on the Walls for support. Once the the Walls are removed you end up with slightly sagging and bouncy stairs and whenever somebody usese them you can see them moving.
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Limecat
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Registered: 25th Jun 05
Location: The Internet
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Off what is posted I would wager that it is load bearing.
The natural split to the house runs horizontal, on your picture, so I assume that the apex of the roof runs in line with that line, or there abouts?
EDIT: If you are talking about a 'customer' then surely, either yourself or the company shouldn't be taking on such work if you have to ask on a forum about crap little Vauxhalls for help?
[Edited on 30-09-2009 by LETGSI16V]
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AndyKent
Member
Registered: 3rd Sep 05
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Gregor
The cupboard door is on the red line wall directly opposite the back wall of the house. I forgot to put this in the masterpiece above.
The whole ceiling is coming down anyway, but it would be good to know just now just how I'm placed with the wall. The metal door frame does have built in hinges but I can't get my head around why exactly it would be there.
Also, the staircase runs above the cupboard, meaning the inside of the cupboard would have a sloping ceiling.
I have no idea whether or not the neighbours took advice from a surveyor.
Thats why I think the wall you're talking about must be loadbearing, as its the only place the floor joists making up the landing at the top of the stair run have anywhere to bear on to.
Do the joists under the first floor landing definately run in the same direction as in the rest of the house?
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