Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Alright, I'll try to keep this short, but in order to properly advice me, I think it's necessary to give a bit of background info on my previous cameras.
1. Working for Canon I used loads of different Ixus cameras and really started having a camera everywhere I went.
2. Bought an EOS 20D (which was new at that time) with 18-55 + 70-200 kit. Stopped bringing my camera anywhere as I wasn't satisfied with the performance of the glass and couldn't be bothered to carry a huge bag with me.
3. Traded the 20D kit for a Canon G10 which is probably the camera I have been most satisfied with. Easy to use, compact enough to bring anywhere and just a general delight to work with. Dissatisfied with indoor and low light performance though.
4. Traded the G10 for an EOS 1000D with 18-55 IS kit lens and 50mm f/1.8 prime lens. Had that for over two years now, and the prime lens has never left the body. I love the fast apertures and combined with (somewhat) decent high ISO performance I've never had to use a flash, ever.
NOW!
Because of the added bulk, I've never used the 1000D quite as much as the G10 so I'm starting to think it's time for a new compact. I've been looking at compact systems (Sony NEX C3) but am put off by the limitations in lens choices and, if looking at Sony exclusively, there's nothing that can match the performance of the Canon 50mm (the 16 mm prime makes no sense to me).
So, what are my options?
Fujifilm X10 seems an obvious choice, and I know we have one very big supporter of this camera here on the site.
Pros:
* Reasonably cheap compared to a system
* Fast lens - f/2.0-2.8
* Great image quality
Cons:
* Quite bulky - not really that much smaller than the 1000D (same goes for systems though)
* Terrible UI - butt ugly and completely illogical
* Unique features = steep learning curve
* Will be hard to resell - chances are I'll want something new in two years
So, let me hear your opinions.
Who has experience with the mirrorless systems, and what are your experiences?
Any one else taken the plunge from DSLR to compact that have something to offer?
Anything new on the horizon, that I should look out for?
[Edited on 12-07-2012 by Balling]
[Edited on 20-07-2012 by Balling]
|
andy1868
Member
Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
if it was my money i would be looking at the X10, but then again i am seriously considering buying it as an additional camera anyway 
i don't think the X10's as big as you might think, it'll only work out alittle bigger than your old G10, but a damnsite smaller than a 1000D fitted with a 18-55 or even a 50mm. It measures 117 x 69.6 x 56.8mm I'd say go and have a play with one, i had a quick go in an airport and fell in love with it (i would have played for longer if i wasn't catching a flight ) i just don't know if i would use it enough to warrant spending £350 on one :/
If you liked your G10 then why not look at a G12? about the same price as the Fuji but something you're used to in its latest incarnation. Or if you're wanting something alittle more have a look at the G1X but they're bigger and cost alot more 
I'd also consider the Olympus ZX-1, a truly compact little thing with a fast aperture (1.8 at the wide end and 2.5 at the long) i don't really know much about it, i get the feeling it's release was overshadowed by the X10 alittle bit.
I'm afraid i don't know alot about the compact system cameras im afraid, theres plenty to choose from in various sizes and various pricetags i only know about the above because i did the research afew months ago for myself
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Thanks Andy.
I won't consider the G12 as it has the same low light difficulties the G10 had. As much as I liked the G10 it only lasted me a year before the small apertures and constant high ISO became tiresome.
The ZX-1 seems an obvious contender and quite a bit cheaper as well. That said, I've not been quite as impressed with image quality from the pictures I've seen.
Regarding the size I really divide cameras in to three groups:
Fits in pocket, doesn't fit in pocket and enormous.
The 20D was enormous, the G10 fit in a (jacket) pocket and the 1000D doesn't fit in a pocket.
The X10 has a quite larger lens than the G10 and therfore doesn't fit in a pocket.
That said, the smaller the better. Every bit counts.
|
andy1868
Member
Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
another contender in my shortlist was the S95/S100, although they have f/2.0 at the wide end, they're only 5.9 at the long end but are meant to be ace cameras.
yeah, the G10 was abit smaller than the X10 but as you say every bit counts  its going to be a toss-up between features i'm afraid :/
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Actually, reading and looking up on the XZ-1 it does seem I might have been a bit fast to judge...
It may actually have reentered my radar.
Especially the fact that the menu layout and general usability seems to be much better, compared to the X10, is a huge selling point to me...
|
andy1868
Member
Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
just have a play with both i say. The olympus seems to be well spec'd etc but i didn't like the ergonomics of it in comparison to the fuji, the lack of a viewfinder would annoy me too i think. But the extra bulk would also annoy me so its swings and roundabouts
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
1000D has been put up for sale, hopefully I'll have made a decision before it's sold.
Need to make my way to a dealer to have a gander at both cameras.
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Well, that didn't take long. 1000D is no longer mine.
Including shipping I got £ 297 for it, which was actually more than I'd expected.
XZ-1 is £ 270
X10 is £ 350
Really, really undecided about this. I feel I WANT to like the X10 more, but it just has some major downfalls.
The XZ-1 isn't perfect either, but at the price I feel its flaws can be excused...
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Sharpness issues on X10:
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.dk/2011/12/fuji-x10-vs-olympus-xz-1-vs-panasonic.html
However, I've done the comparison my self as well and as soon as the 800 ISO line is crossed, the X10 outperforms the XZ-1. Especially at the very high end, where it reduces resolution to 6MP and delivers fantastic results.
This last bit is something I really do love about the X10. Proper use of the EXR sensor.
But at the cost of sharpness at low ISO's? Very unfortunate...
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Balling
Alright, I'll try to keep this short, but in order to properly advice me, I think it's necessary to give a bit of background info on my previous cameras.
1. Working for Canon I used loads of different Ixus cameras and really started having a camera everywhere I went.
2. Bought an EOS 20D (which was new at that time) with 18-55 + 70-200 kit. Stopped bringing my camera anywhere as I wasn't satisfied with the performance of the glass and couldn't be bothered to carry a huge bag with me.
3. Traded the 20D kit for a Canon G10 which is probably the camera I have been most satisfied with. Easy to use, compact enough to bring anywhere and just a general delight to work with. Dissatisfied with indoor and low light performance though.
4. Traded the G10 for an EOS 1000D with 18-55 IS kit lens and 50mm f/1.8 prime lens. Had that for over two years now, and the prime lens has never left the body. I love the fast apertures and combined with (somewhat) decent high ISO performance I've never had to use a flash, ever.
NOW!
Because of the added bulk, I've never used the 1000D quite as much as the G10 so I'm starting to think it's time for a new compact. I've been looking at compact systems (Sony NEX C3) but am put off by the limitations in lens choices and, if looking at Sony exclusively, there's nothing that can match the performance of the Canon 50mm (the 16 mm prime makes no sense to me).
So, what are my options?
Fujifilm X10 seems an obvious choice, and I know we have one very big supporter of this camera here on the site.
Pros:
* Reasonably cheap compared to a system
* Fast lens - f/2.0-2.8
* Great image quality
Cons:
* Quite bulky - not really that much smaller than the 1000D (same goes for systems though)
* Terrible UI - butt ugly and completely illogical
* Unique features = steep learning curve
* Will be hard to resell - chances are I'll want something new in two years
So, let me hear your opinions.
Who has experience with the mirrorless systems, and what are your experiences?
Any one else taken the plunge from DSLR to compact that have something to offer?
Anything new on the horizon, that I should look out for?
I will start off with my camera background...
I started with a Nikon D60 and upgraded to a D300 after a year. I have a nice selection of glass to go with it and get some (in my opinion) nice results with it. However, I have become tired of lugging all the kit around with me unless I am going to an event the requires it, like anything equine.
I also found that I was only taking pictures for other people and not myself!
Anyway, I digress.
My partner and I booked a holiday to Marrakech earlier this year, a destination I have wanted to go to for years mainly due to the photography potential! I didn't really want to carry such expensive and bulky kit around with me due to some of the stories you hear out there.
I also had a gadget itch to scratch so thought it was a perfect time to buy a new camera 
I spent HOURS reading up and playing with all of the premium compacts. I dismissed the 4/3 cameras as I didn't want to invest into a new lens system that would end up with me having a bulky bag for the camera and a couple bits of glass.
This left me with the flagship premium compacts...
I went and played with them all and fell in love with the Fuji X10. The design was the best (imo) and the results speak for themselves. I followed the various camera specific threads on TP and the overall user experience of the Fuji swung it for me.
X10 Owners Thread: http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=365827
I have not regretted my choice at all. I am in the process of sending the camera to Fuji for the sensor replacement after reading the reviews of users on TP.
Here are a couple albums of example photos:
Road trip of Northern Spain:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doug86/sets/72157630467744016/
Marrakech and Atlas Mountains:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doug86/sets/72157629920482059/
London:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doug86/sets/72157629549419907/
It has made photography portable and fun again! I'm really in two minds about keeping the DSLR setup in all honesty!
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Thanks Doug, just the sort of answer I was looking for.
You were a bit late to the game though, as I bought the camera about two hours prior to your reply.
Not in stock anywhere, so not expecting it to ship until friday.
Thankfully this means there's no chance of getting the faulty sensor model.
Good to hear you're getting your sensor replaced. Was a large chink in the armor of an otherwise very potent camera.
Especially in pictures like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doug86/7122442363/in/set-72157629920482059/lightbox/
It really is a shame to see the highlights explode in an otherwise great picture.
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
No worries
I'm glad you bought one. I honestly love mine and I am a little bit gutted that it is going to be away for a few weeks for the sensor swap!
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doug
I am a little bit gutted that it is going to be away for a few weeks for the sensor swap!
Yeah, I can imagine. I hate sending stuff for repairs.
Will be good to get it back in prestine condition though!
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
With quite a bit of delay, the DPreview is finally up:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x10
It doesn't really offer anything new, but it does sum up a lot of the stuff said by various other reviewers.
Their explanation of the EXR modes (page 10) is the best I've seen and I'm finally able to understand the confusion around these features.
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Really, really pleased with this camera after a few hours of use.
Functionality is superb, it fits in a jacket pocket (though not without producing a bulge) and is generally a lot smaller and lighter than my first impression.
Definitely a lot smaller than the 1000D.
The EXR mode is fantastic and I might even find my self shooting in something other than AV for the first time in years.
I thought it would be strange having a mix of 12MP and 6MP pictures, but it's hardly noticeable.
Few very minor downfalls like not being able to turn it on and remove lens cap at the same time, which is a bit of a habit for me. Think I'll get a 40mm UV filter and just chuck the cap in my pocket when I use the camera and only have it on while it's stored.
Also, the menu system is exactly as clustered as everyone has said. What a mess. I think that's something you get over quickly though.
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Oh, also auto ISO available in all modes and with a loft is fantastic and something I've never thought about.
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
So jealous that you have yours! I'm still waiting for mine to come back from Fuji
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
We are waiting for some pictures you have taken!!!
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
I haven't exactly been on photo safari this past week, but here's a few of the snaps I've managed so far. Few more on Flickr.
Honda CR-Z by A. Balling, on Flickr
Honda CR-Z by A. Balling, on Flickr
Honda CR-Z by A. Balling, on Flickr
Honda CR-Z by A. Balling, on Flickr
Honda CR-Z by A. Balling, on Flickr
Aarhus Harbor by A. Balling, on Flickr
Lined up by A. Balling, on Flickr
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Playing around with the super macro today. This camera really doesn't fall short on features.
Have a look at the original files on Flickr, the sharpness really is quite extraordinary.
Cat macro by A. Balling, on Flickr
Cat macro by A. Balling, on Flickr
|
BluKoo
Member
Registered: 8th Apr 02
Location: Stonehaven (Scotland)
User status: Offline
|
Pretty cool
I love the lined up one
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
These are some cracking shots!
Are you doing any PP to them?
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
Thanks guys.
quote:
Originally posted by Doug
Are you doing any PP to them?
Yeah, I usually always do a curve adjustment for contrast, but I actually find my self doing a lot less work on the X10 pictures than I did with my EOS. I'm generally very amazed at the direct off camera JPG quality.
The cat pictures have no PP other than cropping, they're straight off camera.
Car pictures have a selective colour adjustment to prevent the blu sky ruining the red paint.
The instrument shot of the CR-Z is a dual exposure with a full stop down for the outside. Amazingly, ONLY the windows have a different exposure, so the dash and foot wells show the pretty impressive dynamic range of the sensor.
Harbor picture has received a warming filter.
Lined Up picture is taken with the monochrome + red film simulation.
All in all, very minor edits and all basic stuff.
|
Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
User status: Offline
|
I tried desperately to get a macro shot of the cats eyes, but either he closed them, turned away or did this:
Cat yawn by A. Balling, on Flickr
|
Whittie
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 06
Location: North Wales Drives: BMW, Corsa & Fiat
User status: Offline
|
Very crisp!
|
