Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Anyone got any information on this? I'd like to be able to take the gas out of any cars I get with air con with a view to either disposing of it properly or re-selling it. Not sure what I need or how much. If anyone has used such a system and can advise that would be good.
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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To handle aircon gas, you need F-gas training which is about £500, plus to recover the gas you would need an aircon machine which would be about 3k new.
Also, I'm not sure there's a market for it. We currently sell 13.6kg (common size) of r134a for £74.99 plus VAT, so you'd have to sell reclaimed stuff for a lot less to make it viable, then it'd take you years to get the money back.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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That is to the trade though? I meant so I could have people bring cars to me and have the system re-gassed.
Do you have model numbers etc. for the machines so I can read up on them and try and see if there are any knocking about used?
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Gaz
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Registered: 24th Aug 03
Location: Widnes, Cheshire
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is that not technically trading though Ian?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Yes. I meant if he sells gas in bottles, that must be to people with machines, which is why its £70 for loads.
ie. it'll go out to more to the public who rock up to my workshop in a car and just want it filling for £50.
[Edited on 12-08-2012 by Ian]
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baza31
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Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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to be honest you never really re use gas unless you know the system and no moisture present. To reclaim you need a bottle and a reclaim unit .to dispose you take it to a refrigeration wholesaler and they get rid and charge you on weight. No one will buy used gas plus it's illegal to even handle without f gas , so if you do go ahead and work on it I wouldn't run the risk of trying to sell it
[Edited on 12-08-2012 by baza31]
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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I reccomend yellow jacket gear, also promax ain't bad for budget gear. Unless u have f gas there's not a chance you will be able to buy gas. Also they are about to change it unless you have a minimum level 2 or older equiv then they wont accept you on course. They are also clamping down massively on garages doing top ups.
[Edited on 12-08-2012 by baza31]
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Chris
Premium Member
Registered: 21st Sep 99
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Speak with barry kendal, maybe he could by back the gas.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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So what do breakers do when they get cars in with air con? Are they all trained and dispose of the gas and pay to do so?
When you say no one will buy used gas - is all gas not used? This is to the public I'm talking about - filling their cars with gas recovered from breakers. Is that impossible?
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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Only gas now that you may get a buyer for is r22 or r12 which have been phased out. You wouldnt reuse R134a as it's cheap enough to buy if you can get it. I couldn't advise more strongly on using old gas , you will make your life very hard and encounter a whole load of issues
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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When I had my other car re-gassed after the air con stopped being cold, I didn't specify brand new gas - in fact I wouldn't have known or cared so long as it made it colder.
Mainly I want to safely remove the gas from breakers. The selling it on bit was more of a bi-product.
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
So what do breakers do when they get cars in with air con? Are they all trained and dispose of the gas and pay to do so?
When you say no one will buy used gas - is all gas not used? This is to the public I'm talking about - filling their cars with gas recovered from breakers. Is that impossible?
Well yeh they are meant to that's why you have to be registered to break cars. It's massivly illegal and huge fines blowing gas off, do a search on penalties . You could use old gas but you need fgas. What am saying unless it's removed perfectly and every system was perfect with 0% moisture then it's not worth the hassle. Without going Into all the ins and outany moisture at all being in a system will throw it to shut and possibly cause damage
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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OK forget selling the old stuff.
Basically I've no choice in this - if I go this way as a business it needs doing properly.
So - the cheapest way to remove and dispose of gas.
F Gas certification, OK will look in to that.
What about hardware? Few hundred quid for a machine or grands?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Thoughts?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Promax-Refrigerant-Recovery-Unit-RG5410A-E-240v-/251128901267
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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1500 will get you a basic setup .
Reclaim unit £500
Vac pump £400
Gauges £100
Reclaim bottle £120 ( more than likely need more than 1)
Scales £150
Vehicle adapter £30
Thats to decant and charge . If you decide to go away from cars another £500 minimum for handtools
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Thoughts?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Promax-Refrigerant-Recovery-Unit-RG5410A-E-240v-/251128901267
Thats fine. I actually have one of them. Bit noisy but decent enough. Also cheap at that
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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There's also a 110v one which didn't go for £400 last time.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/promax-minimax-refrigerant-recovery-unit-/230835165238
So that plus a bottle?
Or does that need more pumps/gauges etc.?
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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There's a gauge on it . But you'd be best buying a set for sake of it. You o ly need a vac pump if your going to start charging systems. If your only taking gas out you need as a minimum reclaim unit , bottle , scales
[Edited on 12-08-2012 by baza31]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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So either of those in the links and a bottle?
I have scales or can at least find some for less than £150.
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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And hoses, but if you buy gauges you will get hoses. Also you need adapter for the car . Work it out before buying aload of gear tho Ian because I'll tell you now there is no money in used gas . People just would take risk of all preparation on a system to ruin it with contaminated gas. Plus garages scrap yards won't pay for disposing which even though they should we all know it doesn't work that way. There is so many lads doing refrigeration now and charging peanuts for recharging that it's not viable no more.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I do find it hard to believe that every breaker has grands worth of gear just for that job, but I also find it difficult to believe that lots of people are venting it to atmosphere and there aren't prosecutions every week.
I'd prefer to have it in a bottle just so it doesn't make the workshop stink or me ill, nevermind any environmental concerns. And I do think a few hundred quid is a small price to pay for making sure you don't inhale it..
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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They dont , as they are outside they don't have that issue. Plus they dont want to pay for disposing . Big garages and waste traders I'd imagine will do it properly,if caught apart from the fine you will end up getting license to break vehicles revoked at a minimum. Also yes whether working on it properly or not make sure gas is taken out properly as it's nasty shit to be around and will fill your unit in seconds.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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So what happens when the EA visit and ask what they're doing with air con gas? Surely that's not blaggable?
Yes mate, we have 1. no cars with air con, 2. a guy who comes and does it but whose details I can't give you, 3. a guy whose details I'll give you but whose records won't indicate anywhere near the quantities of gas as we have cars in the yard etc. etc.
Perhaps I'm being naive but no proper company with a yard and more than five cars wouldn't take the piss that much surely?
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
So what happens when the EA visit and ask what they're doing with air con gas? Surely that's not blaggable?
Yes mate, we have 1. no cars with air con, 2. a guy who comes and does it but whose details I can't give you, 3. a guy whose details I'll give you but whose records won't indicate anywhere near the quantities of gas as we have cars in the yard etc. etc.
Perhaps I'm being naive but no proper company with a yard and more than five cars wouldn't take the piss that much surely?
That's why it's imperative to be legal. But all as they will do is say it was damaged etc , had someone to check and it was empty. Throw in odd certificate here and there. But that's their problem. Am advising for you carrying out handling of refrigerant and saying make sure everything is above board , paperwork covers your work . If you don't have it in place and you get investigated then there is no talking your way out of it
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BeArDy
Member
Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
User status: Offline
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We bought a machine for £500 off eBay but then someone needs training.
We used to get away with it by getting a local mobile aircon gas man to come once a week to remove it an give me an invoice.
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