miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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People say you can notice the difference from them, which means its got to equal a few bhp.
Its well worth doing for the effort and cost involved! I've done both on my LET.
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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Dont see why not.
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Joff
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Registered: 17th Oct 00
Location: Cambridgeshire
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Joff
Performance gains from the same mod aren't on a sliding scale depending on engine capacity.
Filters gain more on different applications because different applications are restricted in different ways.
Its not unheard of for some lairy Jap engines to lose power when the standard air system is removed - just because they perform so well it can't be improved on.
i.e. the best induction kit for the s2000 looses the car 15bhp doesnt it?!
Yes 
But if you keep the Honda intake and just replace the filter inside, you get the best of both worlds 
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Joff
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Registered: 17th Oct 00
Location: Cambridgeshire
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Luke, I'll try and find a spare throttle body and show you the wedge... IF you come to mine tomorrow 
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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Cant find a pic with the wedge on, but this is mine with it removed.
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Fad
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Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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quote:
I've seen standard XE's get 160bhp on rolling roads, which goes to show how far out a lot of rolling roads are.
not always the case mate as its a mass produced engine and there are several variables every engione wont be 155bhp spot on.
Talking to people like Matrin Dye (shinee on mig) whos broken at least 600 GTE's and at least 200-300 callys' and cav turbos
he told me he's seen stock XE's pushing from 150 to 170bhp and even saw a stock LET with 220bhp out of the tin
mine i belive was a genuine 163bhp as i went up on the rollers with two other XE's
tims on the same day got 155 with 150lb/ft
and mine got 163 with 144lb/ft
only differences with the cars were the g/boxes and the exhaust systems, one had a power cap and one has an ecotech piepe so shows that there are far mor vairables than you make out
[Edited on 26-09-2004 by fadscorsa]
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corsa120
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Registered: 4th May 02
Location: Northamptonshire
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thanx fads some1 who actually understands the theory of rolling roads and different power figures
NOTHING IN ENGINEERING IS EXACT meaning every combustion engine manufactured will be different to the next like fadscorsa said they can all vary but big bhp, this is why i laugh when people add a exhaust system come on here and say MAN IT IS WELL QUICK NOW fact is theres no difference u just want to believe its quicker because uve spent 300 quid on a zorst
if any of us drive a standard 1.6 16v with a proved 106bhp and driven it for 30 mins then give them same car without them knowing but added 10 bhp that same person would not notice any difference in performance to really notice anything u'll need more like 20-30 bhp plus the delivery of power the mod has made.
some engines are stronger than others i had a m8 with 1.4 16v sport and he never serviced it and literally just thrashed it every where all the time, he clocked up 130000 miles and still is goin strong, and in a staright line was ever so slightly quicker than my 1.4 16v sport which just go to show they can vary alot, both had same mods too so that proves it
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miles
Member
Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by fadscorsa
quote:
I've seen standard XE's get 160bhp on rolling roads, which goes to show how far out a lot of rolling roads are.
not always the case mate as its a mass produced engine and there are several variables every engione wont be 155bhp spot on.
Talking to people like Matrin Dye (shinee on mig) whos broken at least 600 GTE's and at least 200-300 callys' and cav turbos
he told me he's seen stock XE's pushing from 150 to 170bhp and even saw a stock LET with 220bhp out of the tin
mine i belive was a genuine 163bhp as i went up on the rollers with two other XE's
tims on the same day got 155 with 150lb/ft
and mine got 163 with 144lb/ft
only differences with the cars were the g/boxes and the exhaust systems, one had a power cap and one has an ecotech piepe so shows that there are far mor vairables than you make out
[Edited on 26-09-2004 by fadscorsa]
I wasn't getting at you fads.
Notice the word 'standard' in my quote, that excludes powercaps, different exhausts etc.
Obviously after 100k or so every engine will be different as it will have been used and looked after differently.
However if an engine is truely mass produced then all the parts will be made exactly the same and they will be assembled the same, so when they leave the factory they should be exactly the same. Obviously there are different runs and qualities of some parts, but from new engines built next to each other should be the same.
I would have thought that a manufacturer would use a 'good' engine to get their offical power figures, although I suppose there could be other motives, lower insurance group and other marketing reasons.
Any particular rolling road isn't accurate with every run, if you run your car on a rr today, and again tomorrow with no changes it wont give the exact same figure. Then start comparing those figures with those from another rr and things become confused.
A lot of RR owners also want to give you the feeling that you've gained power or got a 'good' engine for marketing reasons.
I'm not saying anyone has or hasn't got whatever power, but take rr readings with a pinch of salt.
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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quote:
Originally posted by corsa120
NOTHING IN ENGINEERING IS EXACT
I dont think many engineers would appriciate that comment!
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corsa120
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Registered: 4th May 02
Location: Northamptonshire
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miles no offence but i spent 6 years studying engineering and first thing they teach u is nothing in engineering is exact. why do u think there are tolerances which are deemed acceptable to BS STANDARDS ETC ETC, i can go up to my work and pic up a drive shaft that will measure different to the next one it will be minimal measurements in thou's but it is DIFFERENT and on a combution engine this does happen no two engines will be same but like said its minimal/critical measurements but they have a big affect.
i build hydraulic power units at my work and no two are the same simply because jigs and fixtures may move while fabrication/machining occurrs a number of aspects are involved why things can vary, why is it we have machined components arrive at my factory and half have to be returned but they were all made on the same machine with same jig  its purly because material may have heated up ans warped etc etc there are number of reasons which i could say
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corsa120
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Registered: 4th May 02
Location: Northamptonshire
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NOTHING IN ENGINEERING EXACT is probably one of the most well known saying's in engineering i spent 2 years at different machining companies as an apprentice to get experience outta my work as they wanted me to see the other side of engineering as im a fitter and every place said tis statement so what engineers u talking about
i even have a cnc machining book gave to me by a bloke who is very very bright and it has this statment in it do u want a photocopy lol
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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Fair enough mate, just seems to contradict what I understood engineering was about, but I see what your saying. If you look at the tollerences involved in engine building then they are very small, for instance the Pin clearance in piston is 0.004 - 0.010mm, which is obviously allowing for wear rather than manufacturer inaccuracies.
I think your supplier might need to invest in some new equipment and a qc dept!
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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i agree that nothing in engineering is correct, BUT manufactures use a blue printed engine to ge tthere official figures, blue brinted means the best from all the tollerences!
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corsa120
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Registered: 4th May 02
Location: Northamptonshire
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miles we have quality control but thats exactly my point if nothing is wrong or nothings different why do we have quality control to ensure the parts are correct.
why dont we just trust our suppliers????????
and lets face it my workplace is assured to iso9001 or whatever top one is, we dont check every component u just batch test, not cost effective too, and id pay money to bet car manufacturing does the same, in fact most car manufacturers use a plan call JUST IN TIME which means the parts arrive just in time to be fitted while cars move along the production line, and these compnents/parts are not checked as the trust is with the supplier that it is correct question is ??? IS IT????
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Meat-Pie-SRI
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Registered: 10th Apr 02
Location: Berkhamsted, Drives Mk4 R32
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Mine had lots of power
Fast road cams are a top mod on XE's gains up to 25-30 bhp on the right engine with the right cams 
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