Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by John
T-mob and orange are merging into everything everywhere, the 2 sets of network infrastructure merging properly is separate to that though.
what? no it isnt :S they merged about 18 months ago, and the active network sharing is one of the key integral parts and reasons for the merger. unless your gettign confused with the 3/TMo 3G network deal that was ongoing prior to the EE merger
EE isnt really a proper merger anyway, its literally just merging back office ops, which they could have done in other ways tbh... our merger with 3 in australia (which has gone disastrously btw lol) is a proper merger, one brand, one set of shops, one network etc.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by John
I don't want to have to cut my bandwidth usage because the networks won't put infrastructure in place to cope with it, while still charging ever increasing prices for the privilege.
you need to look a little more at the economics of runnign a modern mobile network :/
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Like not paying billions of pounds of tax?
I know you work for voda Robbo but they are at it with the data. You can't push smartphones, which use a decent amount of data for the first time ever, then cut the data allowance because the network can't cope (well they can obviously but it's a joke).
I don't know the exact ins and outs of the merger but is EE not having a retail presence while t-mobile and orange still exist?
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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Vodafone and tax
Over the last year, Vodafone has faced a number of allegations regarding a historical settlement with the UK tax authorities, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC). The allegations are unjust, unwarranted and based on gross untruths.
Tax: the facts
•Vodafone has never received a tax bill for £8 billion or for the more commonly misquoted figure of £6 billion – a number HMRC themselves describe as an “urban myth”.
•Vodafone will never receive a £6 billion or £8 billion tax bill in connection with any of the historical events examined by the HMRC, nor have we ever been ‘let off’ any such amount.
•Vodafone pays tax in every country in which we operate. In the last financial year, we paid £2.6 billion in corporate taxes on our worldwide profits.
•For every £4 we make in profit, we pay £1 in corporate taxes around the world.
•The amount we paid into the public purse worldwide last year rises to £9 billion if you include payroll and sales taxes as well as fees for radio spectrum.
•Companies are taxed on their profits. 97% of Vodafone Group's operating profit comes from outside the UK. Although the UK only accounts for 3% of our global operating profit, last year we paid around £700 million to the UK Exchequer in corporate taxes, business rates, VAT, payroll taxes and fees for radio spectrum.
Rigorous process
The Vodafone/HMRC settlement was focused on some of the most complex tax legislation anywhere in the world. It involved nine years of legal argument through two independent UK tax authority appeals, three court cases (before the European Court of Justice, the UK High Court and Court of Appeal), followed by an application to the UK Supreme Court. This detailed examination of the points of law involved was then followed by a full and rigorous six month-long technical and legal review by HMRC of all of the relevant material.
The outcome was a full and final settlement with HMRC of £1.25 billion, reflecting all liabilities. To be clear: Vodafone has no unpaid tax bill in the UK, and those who claim otherwise do so without any foundation whatsoever.
Vodafone and the UK
We have made a huge contribution to the UK for more than 25 years, and we're committed to the highest standards of social responsibility and corporate governance.
We employ more than 9,000 people in the UK and provide indirect employment to tens of thousands more. Almost half of our investors are UK residents. We have more than 500,000 individual shareholders in the UK and Ireland, and virtually every major UK pension fund is a Vodafone shareholder.
This year, Vodafone will return £6.7 billion in cash to our shareholders. We're now the biggest dividend payer in the FTSE 100, responsible for £1 in every £8 of cash paid out to the investment funds relied upon by millions of UK pensioners and savers. Over the last four years, we've returned more than £26 billion to our shareholders.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Nice corporate statement 
If it's that transparent why are the discussions and deals not made public?
How can you have a settlement?
Surely, no matter how complicated, there are a set of rules in place that you follow to come to the final figure?
I couldn't phone up the tax office and invite them out for lunch to come to a deal.
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Like not paying billions of pounds of tax?
I know you work for voda Robbo but they are at it with the data. You can't push smartphones, which use a decent amount of data for the first time ever, then cut the data allowance because the network can't cope (well they can obviously but it's a joke).
I don't know the exact ins and outs of the merger but is EE not having a retail presence while t-mobile and orange still exist?
but the investments to keep up with the smartphones (infrastructure and A&R) arent aligned with the revenue coming in from data; it has to be monetized somehow given that data is cannabalising a lot of voice and messaging revenue and bare in mind we are in the middle of the biggest depression we've possibly ever seen and so our revenues are facing pressure anyway. the tiering data allowances is to monetize the investments mnos have made in their networks. if theyd got their act together int he first place then people wouldnt have been used to data as a free commodity and so we wouldnt have these issues
we have the (proven) best network in the vast majority of the markets we operate in, yet in the busy hour, we still have huge utilisation %ages, in spite of increaisng capital spend and intensity throughout the recession/depression
wrt EE, as i said before, iirc they arent allow to do a fully merger for comeptitive reasons but i may be wrong. they are trialling some EE shops but cross selling both brands within. again, woudl make sense to pool the shops for synergy reaosns but Tmo and Orange offer such differnt products that actually sellign them togetehr probably isnt the most sensible idea
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Nice corporate statement
If it's that transparent why are the discussions and deals not made public?
How can you have a settlement?
Surely, no matter how complicated, there are a set of rules in place that you follow to come to the final figure?
I couldn't phone up the tax office and invite them out for lunch to come to a deal.
took off our website obv lol.
settlement relates to CFC deals that werent clear as the rules were changed half way through our operations, iirc.
you couldnt, no, but then you arent one fo the biggest tax payers in the country lol
the whole thing that pisses me off wrt tax (and same for the other grousp targetted) are that if you offered a man ont he street legal opportunities to reduce their tax bill, theyd bite your hand off but when a company does it, its the biggest crime of the century :S why woudlnt we, and any other corp, want to pay as little tax as legally possible :S
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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Robbo - Typical bean counter reply; it's all If's and theoreticals. Bottom line, Billy Bob on the street can't go to their tax man and get a deal, they abide by the law and pay what they owe. Why should corporates like Vodafone get a deal to pay less and not what they actually owe?
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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we shouldnt get a deal to pay less, and did pay what was due
the problem was that HMRC changed the rules halfway through operations over a period of years so they argued one way, we argued another and eventually came upon a settlement, as generally happens in court cases. which is where this would have gone (thereby costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds because HMRC would have lost) so they agreed on a realistic figure to pay. same thing does happen with personal tax payers when things get exceptionally complicated (as is this the case with vodaofne as we bought thousands of companies when acquiring operations abroad, including Mannesmann in Germany who had billions of DM/€ tax losses that we could, legally, utilise
[Edited on 22-12-2011 by Robbo]
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
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also, its not a typical bean counter reply, its a reply from someone who is qualified to udnertake tax assessments etc. and has taken and passed countless tax exams :/
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Fucking mobile network corporate bollocks. When I gave notice to terminate my O2 contract in favour of giffgaff it practically turned into a full blown argument - the lady asked why I was leaving and I answered that I wanted unlimited data. The lady then told me that I only used 400MB a month, to which I replied that I wasn't using the phone to it's full potential and I wanted to be able to stream music while I was at the gym. She then went on to say (getting angry now) that I could use BT's Cloud WiFi service for unlimited internet, to which I replied that it never worked properly, that I wasn't near any hotspots and I just wanted my PAC number thanks. Then she began to get very agressive saying that the cloud is best wifi service you can get and that giffgaff's customer service was only available online. I felt like saying thank fuck for that, then I don't have to speak to any miserable cunts like yourself. Plus, O2 are still getting some of my money 
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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When I swapped the gf from O2 to giffgaff the person told me that the data speeds and network coverage wouldn't be as good
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Graham88
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Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
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I've been with T mobile for a good 6 years+ with no problems. I often get signal where other people don't. Always been the cheapest too, can't fault them tbh
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Just another thing about giffgaff for those used to contract phones - if you use their goodybags, you can buy them back to back so you have a new one for when the old one runs out. It looks like they're going to be adding an auto-renew feature for it some time, but for now you could just buy a few at a time.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by John
When I swapped the gf from O2 to giffgaff the person told me that the data speeds and network coverage wouldn't be as good
They don't seem to be familiar with the concept of capitalism. At least when I left Vodafone they were more accepting that I wanted something they couldn't sell me so had every right to go buy it else where (after a feeble attempt to flog me a Blackbery  )!
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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First problem with giffgaff.
Some issue on their side with buying a goodybag.
Basically can't add a goodybag on, taken them 24 hours to tell me it may be a few days to fix it.
Can't phone anyone to speed it up, not sure what exactly takes 'a few days'.
Not good.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Service-Updates-Notice-board/Goodybag-inconsistencies-15-02-2012/td-p/3078647
Just one of the 'unlucky' ones. Can't say I've had too many problems apart from the outage back in 2010 that lasted for a day.
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