DODG-E
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 03
Location: Romford, Essex
User status: Offline
|
Does anyone know if these are available for a 1.2 8V?
These are illegal in England because of the petrol consumption.
There is a bottle of water inline with the fuel just before it goes to the cylinders... and when the fuel pumped into the cylinders, a burst of water is injected with the fuel.
This creates more speed, and also your fuel consumption is about 1/2 - 1/4 of what it was.
i know that Courtenay do them for the 1.6 GSi and that.
|
Matty Hall
Member
Registered: 22nd Oct 00
Location: Burton on Trent (midlands)
User status: Offline
|
there was somrhting in redline early last year about a Viper spray system that injected water into the cylinders. A lad of here had it fitted don't know if iot was any good. (I'm not on about the erl aquamist system) 
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
what in the world!!!!!!!???? What is the bennefit of injecting WATER into the cylinders?????????
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
The only benefit i can see of doing this is to cool the engine. But surely mixing petrol with water would just dilute the petrol?
Dave
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
Dave that is what I am thinking! Plus straight into the cylinder wouldn't that create uneven cooling........where is the steam supposed to go???? Someone got any links for this??
|
Corsa Lad 69
Banned
Registered: 24th Mar 02
Location: Ballymoney,Northern Ireland
User status: Offline
|
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
Also, with all the extreme heat in the cylinders, surely the head would crack or warp, just as if water was getting in through the gasket. I cant think of where water would go?
dave
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
B.S indeed!
Dave
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
errrrr....http://www.aquamist.co.uk/
Dave
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
maybe someone got confused reading about a hydrogen engine 
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
hmmm ok, yes now I remember something. In the old school turbo days they injected water to cool the inlet temps down..... before intercoolers became as proficent. This was mainly in the carbi blow through setup.
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
Hydrogen engine? is that an aussie joke? Im coming out to auz in the summer. Going to cairns, brisbane, sydney. See all my relatives. Wana go to Dreamworld for the tower of terror thing. That was cool! You been on it TJ?
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
naaa haven't been on the Tower of Terror... not a big rides fan. Plenty of friends have though and reckon its pretty sweet!
What you mean about the hydrogen engine being a joke? Its been around for like 50 years!! I'm pretty sure its only a few years off making mass production stage for road cars!
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
Oh right, i have been living in a cave for a while. Yeah that tower of terror ride, 0-100 in 7 secs, flies up 47 stories and then back down with 6 secs of weighlessness. Madness. Have you seen the tower though?
dave
|
sxi_welshy_boy
Member
Registered: 16th Sep 02
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
The only benefit i can see of doing this is to cool the engine. But surely mixing petrol with water would just dilute the petrol?
Dave
How would it dilute the petrol? Oil (petrol) and water dont mix..
|
TJ_KING
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Brisbane/ Australia = Corsa B GSi
User status: Offline
|
Yeah seen the tower for sure. You can see it from the highway on the way to the Gold Coast, plus seen it in action up close.
The big drop looks scarier though! You sit down and they lift you straight up to the top of the tower and then drop you straight down!!
|
supacorsa
Member
Registered: 11th Feb 03
User status: Offline
|
jackets are put around the cylinders that have water in them no water gos into the engine
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
Actually sxi, petrol and water would mix quite well. Petrol is a bi-product of oil when it is broken down through fractional distillation. It does not carry the same properties as Crude Oil that you see in oil slicks in the sea.
Dave
|
DODG-E
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 03
Location: Romford, Essex
User status: Offline
|
ok..... so inbetween the aussie talk........
does anyone know if they are available for 1.2 8V? lol
They do work, they banned em in England because they hardley used any petrol, so Government being greedy banned em.
|
jipp
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 03
User status: Offline
|
water injection is good for cars what you have to remember is that it is sprayed at high pressure through a fine nozzel so that the water is atomised this the cools the intake charge thus increasing engine power. it works in a similar way to NOS, where the cooling effect of the NOS alone can increase the engine power. 'When you cool the air, you increase it's density, thereby getting more oxygen into the cylinder.'
it also prevents pre-detonation.
read this it's technical but will give an explaination of reasons for haveing water systems to cool the engine.
Unburned end gas, under increasing pressure and heat (from the normal progressive burning process and hot combustion chamber metals) spontaneously combusts, ignited solely by the intense heat and pressure. The remaining fuel in the end gas simply lacks sufficient octane rating to withstand this combination of heat and pressure.
Detonation causes a very high, very sharp pressure spike in the combustion chamber but it is of a very short duration. If you look at a pressure trace of the combustion chamber process, you would see the normal burn as a normal pressure rise, then all of a sudden you would see a very sharp spike when the detonation occurred. That spike always occurs after the spark plug fires. The sharp spike in pressure creates a force in the combustion chamber. It causes the structure of the engine to ring, or resonate, much as if it were hit by a hammer. Resonance, which is characteristic of combustion detonation, occurs at about 6400 Hertz. So the pinging you hear is actually the structure of the engine reacting to the pressure spikes. This noise of detonation is commonly called spark knock. This noise changes only slightly between iron and aluminum. This noise or vibration is what a knock sensor picks up. The knock sensors are tuned to 6400 hertz and they will pick up that spark knock. Incidentally, the knocking or pinging sound is not the result of "two flame fronts meeting" as is often stated. Although this clash does generate a spike the noise you sense comes from the vibration of the engine structure reacting to the pressure spike.
One thing to understand is that detonation is not necessarily destructive. Many engines run under light levels of detonation, even
moderate levels. Some engines can sustain very long periods of heavy detonation without incurring any damage. If you've driven a car
that has a lot of spark advance on the motorway, you'll hear it pinging. It can run that way for thousands and thousands of miles.
Detonation is not necessarily destructive. It's not an optimum situation but it is not a guaranteed instant failure. The higher the specific
output (HP/in3) of the engine, the greater the sensitivity to detonation. An engine that is making 0.5 HP/in3 or less can sustain moderate
levels of detonation without any damage; but an engine that is making 1.5 HP/in3, if it detonates, it will probably be damaged fairly
quickly, here I mean within minutes.
Detonation causes three types of failure:
1. Mechanical damage (broken ring lands)
2. Abrasion (pitting of the piston crown)
3. Overheating (scuffed piston skirts due to excess heat input or high coolant temperatures)
The high impact nature of the spike can cause fractures; it can break the spark plug electrodes, the porcelain around the plug, cause a
clean fracture of the ring land and can actually cause fracture of valves-intake or exhaust. The piston ring land, either top or second
depending on the piston design, is susceptible to fracture type failures. If I were to look at a piston with a second broken ring land, my
immediate suspicion would be detonation.
Another thing detonation can cause is a sandblasted appearance to the top of the piston. The piston near the perimeter will typically
have that kind of look if detonation occurs. It is a swiss-cheesy look on a microscopic basis. The detonation, the mechanical pounding,
actually mechanically erodes or fatigues material out of the piston. You can typically expect to see that sanded look in the part of the
chamber most distant from the spark plug, because if you think about it, you would ignite the flame front at the plug, it would travel
across the chamber before it got to the farthest reaches of the chamber where the end gas spontaneously combusted. That's where you
will see the effects of the detonation; you might see it at the hottest part of the chamber in some engines, possibly by the exhaust valves.
In that case the end gas was heated to detonation by the residual heat in the valve.
|
Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
|
Is it just me who feels stupid now?
Dave
|
miles
Member
Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
User status: Offline
|
Thats is bullocks mate! It wont do anything for performance!
Water injection is for cooling the cylinders to prevent detonation on turbo cars so you can safely run higher boost.
No one uses water injection on non turbo cars because the inlet temp is low anyway (hasn't got a hot turbo to go through)
Who told you they banned them? Where did you hear about them?
|
jipp
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DODG-E
Does anyone know if these are available for a 1.2 8V?
These are illegal in England because of the petrol consumption.
There is a bottle of water inline with the fuel just before it goes to the cylinders... and when the fuel pumped into the cylinders, a burst of water is injected with the fuel.
This creates more speed, and also your fuel consumption is about 1/2 - 1/4 of what it was.
i know that Courtenay do them for the 1.6 GSi and that.
going back to the original question
doppler boost: i can only see these being used on scooters not cars (from the web searches i use)
power box. these are avalible for the 1.4 and 1.6 16V engines only (from courtenay)
and it's the same with regal they don't do them for the 1.2 8v. in fact i can't find anywhere that does.... soz
|
jipp
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by miles
Water injection is for cooling the cylinders to prevent detonation on turbo cars so you can safely run higher boost.
No one uses water injection on non turbo cars
not quite true there.
below quoted from company that produces water injection for normaly asperated engines
Use of water injection is typically associated with a supercharger. Through our research and development, Kennedy's has found that water injection may be
very useful in certain normally aspirated applications. You can read more about this on our SUV page here. To briefly review, the basic concept is that
contemporary engines from GM, Ford, and most European and Japanese manufacturers utilize knock sensor technology to allow an aggressive timing curve.
The knock sensor retards timing to avoid damaging detonation under commonly encountered conditions such as high load (rapid acceleration, hill climbing,
towing), high ambient temperature, or low octane fuel. This protects the engine but robs power and ruins fuel economy. With the use of Kennedy's Water
Injection you can have your cake and eat it to! By suppressing detonation, the knock sensor remains inactive and full timing is retained. The result is more
power, better fuel economy, and crisp throttle response. When the knock sensor pulls timing, up to 30-40hp can be lost on a normally aspirated motor
|
miles
Member
Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
User status: Offline
|
high ambient temperature, or low octane fuel
We dont really have either of those over here!
That sounds a bit like a sales pitch to me!
So there maybe some advantage on N/A cars, but not worth the outlay for the kit.
|
